Page 1 of 1
ATB
#1
Posted 2012-March-03, 11:28
This was played with some BBFers in a team match. These two people had never played together before and so had very few agreements.
E/W are vuln and East dealt. E/W pass throughout:
South held:
AKQJ83, QJ865, void, K2
North held:
94, A732, AT9, A986
1♠-3NT
4♥-AP
comments? suggestions?
E/W are vuln and East dealt. E/W pass throughout:
South held:
AKQJ83, QJ865, void, K2
North held:
94, A732, AT9, A986
1♠-3NT
4♥-AP
comments? suggestions?
Bridge Personality: 44 44 43 34
Never tell the same lie twice. - Elim Garek on the real moral of "The boy who cried wolf"
Never tell the same lie twice. - Elim Garek on the real moral of "The boy who cried wolf"
#2
Posted 2012-March-03, 11:31
LOL at 3NT which could mean anything absent agreements. Certainly I'd respond 2♣ and hopefully things sort themselves out after that. When you play with very few agreements, sometimes you're more likely to not arrive at the optimal contract.
They're may be a part of the world where you respond with a natural 3NT, but I don't live in it and hate the bid, but if it is taken as natural then South could envision slam possibilites.
They're may be a part of the world where you respond with a natural 3NT, but I don't live in it and hate the bid, but if it is taken as natural then South could envision slam possibilites.
#3
Posted 2012-March-03, 12:07
i am not a fan of 3NT, but given that bid, I am very much not a fan of the 4♥ bid either, OVER 3NT, with no agreements, I would have tried 5♥, which gets you to 6♥ despite the 3NT bid.
Let's assume a minimum agreement of 2/1 GF, the options with north over 1♠ would be...
2♣ establish game force, and finds the heart fit, and gets you to slam I think when hearts are raised.
or 1NT forcing, which will elicit a jump to 3♥ which should start the ball rolling.
On the actual bidding, I have a small amount of sympathy for the 3nt bidder. Here 3nt assured game would be reached at least. Opener could have done more. I would assess the blame actually more to south, since 4♥ failed to show the playing strength of the hand, but the 3nt bidder is not without some of the blame as well. Lets say 65% on opener, 35% on 3nt bidder.
Let's assume a minimum agreement of 2/1 GF, the options with north over 1♠ would be...
2♣ establish game force, and finds the heart fit, and gets you to slam I think when hearts are raised.
or 1NT forcing, which will elicit a jump to 3♥ which should start the ball rolling.
On the actual bidding, I have a small amount of sympathy for the 3nt bidder. Here 3nt assured game would be reached at least. Opener could have done more. I would assess the blame actually more to south, since 4♥ failed to show the playing strength of the hand, but the 3nt bidder is not without some of the blame as well. Lets say 65% on opener, 35% on 3nt bidder.
--Ben--
#4
Posted 2012-March-03, 14:45
I do not care about 3 NT if I have no agreement. It gets my shape and my point count across. With a regular partner this had been another piece of cake.
4 ♥ is an underbid like Ben explained.
4 ♥ is an underbid like Ben explained.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#5
Posted 2012-March-03, 15:00
While 4♥ is an underbid, responder can be sure of getting to game if he just bids 2 ♣ as F1.
#7
Posted 2012-March-03, 17:58
if playing 2/1 i do not care for the 3n bid
(I would prefer 1n forcing) but having said that
I have no heartache with the bidding until
S PASSED over 4h. Youve discovered at least a
9 card heart fit and you have THREE (lets
recount) YES THREE ACES.
There is a huge possibility there are no minor
suit losers and p has no idea your hand is
so slam oriented. You can imagine a high
% slam if p has as little as Akxxxx Kxxxx x x.
Since p has said we are playing in a major suit
I would bid 4n blackwood (cant be to play) and
bid 6h after p shows just 1 key card.
(I would prefer 1n forcing) but having said that
I have no heartache with the bidding until
S PASSED over 4h. Youve discovered at least a
9 card heart fit and you have THREE (lets
recount) YES THREE ACES.
There is a huge possibility there are no minor
suit losers and p has no idea your hand is
so slam oriented. You can imagine a high
% slam if p has as little as Akxxxx Kxxxx x x.
Since p has said we are playing in a major suit
I would bid 4n blackwood (cant be to play) and
bid 6h after p shows just 1 key card.
#8
Posted 2012-March-04, 01:23
Some funny comments, 3NT without agreement means 13-15 hcp balanced hand and no fit. I never heard 3NT denies 3 aces either.
As much as i dont like 3 NT bid, i think it is % 100 6-5 hands fault. Wouldnt he bid 4♥ with AJxxxx QJxxx Kx void ?
As much as i dont like 3 NT bid, i think it is % 100 6-5 hands fault. Wouldnt he bid 4♥ with AJxxxx QJxxx Kx void ?
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#9
Posted 2012-March-04, 02:57
When I learned to play bridge at Bobby Nail's bridge club in Houston we used the Goren point count system. Responder has 12 HCP plus two tens. His/her hand also has three quick tricks. This, according to the Goren system, would add 1+ 'points' for a total of 13+. Now, Mr. Goren advised that 3NT show 16 to 18 'points'. Newfangled notions have degraded the 3NT bid to 12+ to 14+. If you insist on being modern, then 3NT is acceptable, although with this particular hand I like 2♣, the so-called 'approach forcing' method - said to be the very latest thing.
Assuming a 3NT response, then opener's hand is worth 16 'points' in high cards and three 'points' for the void. Well, any fool who can add can see that we are more than just a little in the slam range: 19 + (12+ to 14+) = plenty 'o stuff. I don't see two quick losers in my hand, so that is not an issue, plus I am playing the hand. If my luck had been running bad, I would have bid 5♥ (only with a very good partner). Otherwise, 6♥ normally, or 6♠ playing opposite Mrs. Crumley.
Assuming a 3NT response, then opener's hand is worth 16 'points' in high cards and three 'points' for the void. Well, any fool who can add can see that we are more than just a little in the slam range: 19 + (12+ to 14+) = plenty 'o stuff. I don't see two quick losers in my hand, so that is not an issue, plus I am playing the hand. If my luck had been running bad, I would have bid 5♥ (only with a very good partner). Otherwise, 6♥ normally, or 6♠ playing opposite Mrs. Crumley.
#10
Posted 2012-March-04, 08:40
Got to 6H. They led a spade, won HK for a S-ruff.
Whew! Dodged that set.
Whew! Dodged that set.
#11
Posted 2012-March-05, 05:43
dake50, on 2012-March-04, 08:40, said:
Got to 6H. They led a spade, won HK for a S-ruff.
Whew! Dodged that set.
Whew! Dodged that set.
Then you should have taken the safety play in hearts (HA then another and now there's no way a spade ruff can occur)
As for the blame - if you're going to pre-empt your partner by jumping to 3NT, you should expect this kind of thing to happen. Anything wrong with 2C over 1S (whether playing 2/1 or not)?
1S-2C
3H-4NT (RKC hearts)
6D (1 or 3, void in Diamonds)-6H
ahydra
Page 1 of 1