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Posted 2004-October-27, 23:30
Bidding went
E S W N
1C 1S P 2H
p 3H p 4H
Trick 1 : S 4210Q
H J329
H 58K 4 C
D 27JA
H A45©6
C 3Q82
C 1097(H)6
H Q10JC QC
S 5
and claim rest of the tricks, now for rest of the hand
hope this comes out right, and now all tricks shoud come from South hand( spades)
does my playing of the Ace from diamond prevent me from having QX(if they were looking for an endplay?).
opps claimed later to td when he showed that my playing the ace of diamonds ment i didnt have the queen and therefore an obviuos finesse was the case, no line of play was given in the claim,
spade 5 was led from north, then claim for +1, i stopped play(called td) but play went on with the Spades after minutes cause td didnt show and time was close to roundend(the less tricks possible , the less room for discussion i thought)
Your comments?
Your comments? [/quote]
Hi Marc
the diagramm cannot be correct. West has 6 cards left, North only 4. South only 5.
And South must have a small diamond, to be able to take the diamond finesse.
Maybe the hand is like this?
There is no way to make 6 tricks (I even can't see how to make 5) on this hand and TD should decide accordingly.
Cheers
Al
♠♥♠ BAD bidding may be succesful due to excellent play, but not vice versa. ♦♣♦
Teaching in the BIL TUE 8:00am CET.
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#3
spwdo
Posted 2004-October-28, 05:06
#4
inquiry
Posted 2004-October-28, 08:49
West North East South
1♣ 1♠ Pass 2♥
Pass 3♥ Pass 4♥
Pass Pass Pass
S4 S2 ST SQ
HJ H3 H2 H9
H5 H8 HK C4
D2 D7 DJ DA
HA H4 C5 H6
C3 CA C8 C2
CT C9 H7 C6
HQ HT CJ CQ
S5 C7 SA S6
SK S7 D3 CK <<---- presumably claim made here due to "partner played two more tricks"
S9 SJ D6 D4
D8 DT
West North East South
1♣ 1♠ Pass 2♥
Pass 3♥ Pass 4♥
Pass Pass Pass
1) Does your play of the ACE deny the QUEEN? No, of course not. And if you had it, even if it was say doubleton, I as director I would rule declearer down
2) The declarer should state his line of play. as always, but is seems clear from the play and the timing of the claim, his intention was to finessee the diamond queen. Your partner, if alive to this possibility, could have stiffed the diamond queen and had the surprise club QUEEN when thrown in.
3) I would allow the claim, and had mentioned to declarer, if he had not, to state his line of play on the claim, as he is suppose to do.
#5
spwdo
Posted 2004-October-28, 11:52
To me when the claim came there were several possibiltys that the contratc coud go down.
1.partner had for instance only S + clubs left (down 2)
2.partner held one Club and played it to me i still have rest of clubs (down 2)
3.i hold D queen(single or with X) and club king (down 2)
4.opps didnt state a line of play so play from top?
What happend here wasnt good play, cause declarer had no idea how many !S were played , he claimed all tricks (+1) where he needed all the prev.poss .holdings not to be the case, and he woud need that endplay on !D , doesnt that all sound too much for someone that has only 12 spades in a deck or 13 and assumes a good split, doesnt take into consideration that there where clubs left.
If i see only one D in dummy why woud i play the queen , giving away that i hold also the ace and force them to think of playing another line where now north after A diamond lead from partner just play low and is sure to make the trick, all we needed therefore was taking trumps out of dummy wich i did even when holding A10 when only queen H was left, so i gave away a trick to not let dummy ruff a !D.
Maybe stupid from me but that came to mind at that time i was to lead after taking trick with !D ace in trick 4, sorry to say but opps are at good in counting, endplaying, finessing, visualising a hand as me(more luck then skill to be fair).
Rule 70 is clear on claims , i see as td no justification in what is there, only what can be there, partner and me havent showed out in minor so any claim with a S loser is over and out for declarer imo
#6
inquiry
Posted 2004-October-28, 12:28
Quote
1.partner had for instance only S + clubs left (down 2)
If I have your description of when the claim was made, NO ONE HAD any clubs left, so we can forget #1.
Quote
See reply to #1, if no one has clubs left, you partner can not lead on to you. So #2 is also nonsense.
Quote
Well, since no clubs are out, if you hold diamond Queen, they are down with or without director, and if you had kept a club, I would rule them as director down two. But, 1.. you didn't have a club, and 2... you didn't have the diamond queen,
Quote
What happend here wasnt good play, cause declarer had no idea how many !S were played , he claimed all tricks (+1) where he needed all the prev.poss .holdings not to be the case, and he woud need that endplay on !D , doesnt that all sound too much for someone that has only 12 spades in a deck or 13 and assumes a good split, doesnt take into consideration that there where clubs left.
Ok.. now I am confused about when the claim actually was made. Did he claim the rest before he lead a spade or after he lead a spade to your partner. The reason why I am confused, you said "he claimed the rest, but partner played to two more tricks". I thought this meant you partner pretty much won the spade and continued a diamond. If, with lead in dummy, and before leading, he claimed all the remainder, I would rule this down one... and not let him hook the "marked" (we know it is not really marked) queen. If he leads teh spade, your partner wins the jack and he claims the remainder, I would (with his explaination to the TD allow him to make.
Quote
You gave away one trick, but you picked up one in the wash. He still makes, easier perhaps, if you do not cash the heart ACE.
Quote
Rule 70 is clear, but online bridge has to make some exceptions. One exception is that the hand has to be finished.... so the next one can start. If this was an ACBL event, I ssupect rule 70 would have to be applied. And I said the line of play should be stated... but I am more willing to be a little lax with claims on line than in real life... although I always state my line of play unless I have come down to all high winners.....and even then I usually say "there all good"....
Ben
#7
spwdo
Posted 2004-October-28, 14:01
spwdo, on Oct 28 2004, 02:30 PM, said:
Hi trying again, thx Ben for keeping me going
correct rulling is?
#8
inquiry
Posted 2004-October-28, 14:14
Your diagram is confusing because cards are being played that are not shown and each hand has a different number of cards. Is this ending what you are speaking about? North leads the SPADE-FIVE, EAST discards A CLUB and before playing from dummy, declarer claims all five last tricks?
IF this is the case, 1) obviously the claim is false, as he must lose at least one trick. In addition, at this point, since he assumes the spades must be good, (only way to make this claim), I would disallow any makeup diamond finessee, despite the "marked nature" of it being on-side.
So if this is the condition, the adjusted score is wrong, no matter how adamently (and correctly) north argues that he would re-finessee in diamonds on the endplay.
Ben
#9
spwdo
Posted 2004-October-28, 19:51
inquiry, on Oct 29 2004, 05:14 AM, said:
Your diagram is confusing because cards are being played that are not shown and each hand has a different number of cards. Is this ending what you are speaking about? North leads the SPADE-FIVE, EAST discards A CLUB and before playing from dummy, declarer claims all five last tricks?
IF this is the case, 1) obviously the claim is false, as he must lose at least one trick. In addition, at this point, since he assumes the spades must be good, (only way to make this claim), I would disallow any makeup diamond finessee, despite the "marked nature" of it being on-side.
So if this is the condition, the adjusted score is wrong, no matter how adamently (and correctly) north argues that he would re-finessee in diamonds on the endplay.
Ben
yes correct diagram,
wanted to show diagram wat was left when claim ocured, then i callled td , but north played high spade, partner played a low spade, north played king spade, partner followed suit(thats the two cards i mistakenly called tricks) and td showed , td adjusted to make(off course to make instaed of +1) based upon the finesse/endplay not taking into consideration my partner can easely have club king and state thats imposible for me to have !Dqueen.
So a claim for 5, got 4 where my point is coud be easely been 3, or 2 if i hold !Dqueen+!Cking(ok far fetched but poss.) but my partner can have !Cking so to me/rule 70 it shoud be adjusted to -1 , if nomore cards were played after the claim to -2 perhaps
Thx Ben, learned a couple of things about posting hands and so on, sorry made it more difficult on you then needed.
Regards
Marc
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