[TWO4BRIDGE]

( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S
( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - ??

your hand
A x x x x
x x
Q x x
K 10 x

1) Do you agree with the 1S advance ?

2) What do you do now after partner made a "general strength" cuebid ?

[MrAce]

I would have bid 2♠ to start with.

Having started with 1♠ i think i have to cue now to show max of a 1♠ bidder.

[benlessard]

Would have bid 2S clearly too strong for 1S in standard style. Over 2D partner can bid X/2H/2Nt/3C/3H/3S/4D/4S and they all show pretty good hands. So here the hands where I would bid 3D are clubs hands too strong for 3C, and 3 card support with a stiff D (often 5H/3S) that are too strong for 2S/3S. I would bid 4D COG but i dont think its show maximum range. With 5-6 pts and 5215 or 5323 I will also bid 4D.

[the hog]

1S is very poor; this hand is worth 2S. As I stuffed up the bidding, I am now forced to bid 4S. No doubt partner would now interpret a 4C cue not as a cue but as 4(3) spades and long Cs.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 Depends certainly on agreement, but I would assume 2S is standard,
and even 3S is an option - some play 3S as showing the same strength
as 2S, but with a 5 carder.
#2 3D is not yet GF, hence 3S is not enough, this leaves either 3NT or
4S, I would go with 4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cascade]

2♠ the first time seems more normal.

Over a general strength showing cue then I jump to 4♠ to show some strength and extra length. The problem with a return cue is that we don't tell partner anything extra about our distribution. If this hand is in your range for 1♠ then a jump now to 4♠ should be in your range for that bid.

Incidentally I think 3♦ now shouldn't be general strength. With a general strength hand we have the option of a second takeout double. So I would have thought that 3♦ shows spade support and a very good hand - perhaps game-forcing. In which case I would cue my club.

[whereagles]

I would have bid 3♠. This shows 5 cards and invitational values. No more guessing needed.

Now we have to decide whether to bid 3NT or 4♠. I think it's not unreasonable to find pard with 3 spades, so I'll pick 4S.

[han]

This hand would probably have been easy had you bid the normal 2S. Now you cannot recover.

[whereagles]

You can recover. But you have to guess right

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Admittedly, the 1S advance was poor .

But then, after the 3D! cue, Advancer compounded the error by only bidding 3S ( afraid of going past 3NT... but then Advancer should have bid 3NT with 1/2 stop in ♦ ) .... passed out ... making 3S + 2 .
[ I can see the "normal" 2S instead of 1S..... but 3S instead of 1S ? ( on A x x x x ) ] .

Overcaller's hand was:
K J 10 9 x
A Q 10 x
x
A x x

Any "blame" there ?
( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S
( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S
( p ) - ??

[Zelandakh]

X was silly - start with a 1♠ overcall.
1♠ was ridiculous - this is an obvious 2♠.
3♦ would not be my choice, especially with a pick-up; 3♠ is plenty. I am guessing the doubler got this confused with a UCB.
3♠ is only sensible if 3♦ is a GF cue, which is a playable method but having misdescribed the hand last time round far too dangerous without agreements.

This is the kind of auction you just have accept as a write-off and laugh about afterwards. It would be great in a teaching session just to be able to show how not to bid competitively.

[gszes]

im 100% in the camp of the 1s bidder should have bid 2s

After 2d I feel the next proper bid is 2s* which should
show a hand worth somewhere in the area of 18 asking p
to go on if near the top of their minimum (roughly 0-7/8).

a 3s* bid here should show somewhere around 22 points.

there is no reason to play 2s* here as competitive. Your
p will have another bid and they can compete further if
they are closer to 7/8 than 0 (a huge range) they heard your
x there is no reason to repeat the same values twice.

In any case 3d is just a huge overbid opposite a 1s bid
which could be xxx xx xxxx xxxx

I much prefer x to 1s overcall because there is too much
risk of losing the heart suit. I would also prefer 2d
michaels over a 1s overcall with so much concentration
of values in the majors.

[pooltuna]

surely you have a structure in place for responses to a TOX and either this falls in that structure or it doesnt,my structure would require a 2♠ call after a 3♦ qbid ...hamman eggs in one basket

[benlessard]

Quote

Any "blame" there ?
( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S
( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S
( p ) - ??

The 3 first bid of your partnership are poor, so instead of worrying about the rest of the auction focus/ask why these 3 bids are weak. The worst is the 3D bid you have the perfect strenght for a 3S call (slight overbid even). The minimal response over a takeout X is 0-8 normally. An invite (3S rather than 2S) by the takeout doubler ask to responder you are in the upper range (of 0-8) please bid game. So bidding 3S here (rather than 2S or 3D) ask partner to bid game with 1.5 working card or better.

qxxx+ A and partner will raise to 4. KQ+QS of club, KC+KH+J some of these holding will make game good and some wont but at least your in the zone.

[ahydra]

It's good to discuss these kind of things with partner - eg what is the difference between

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-X

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-new suit

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-2D

I'd say that X is weakest (say 15+), new suit is good 16+ 5+ cards, and a cue is 19+ F1 (practically a GF).

As for whether to double or bid spades with 5=4=1=3, that's a matter of style. Here I'd go with 1S since you can easily rebid hearts. So the auction goes (for me and my clone, at least)

(1D)-1S-(p)-2D (UCB - upgrading due to the 10card fit)
(p)-4D (splinter) - (p) - 4S - out

5431 shapes are awesome - learn to love them

ahydra

[P_Marlowe]

ahydra, on 2012-February-14, 09:13, said:

It's good to discuss these kind of things with partner - eg what is the difference between

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-X

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-new suit

(1D)-X-p-1M
(?)-2D

I'd say that X is weakest (say 15+), new suit is good 16+ 5+ cards, and a cue is 19+ F1 (practically a GF).
<snip>

X should deny a fit, unless you are super strong.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-February-13, 08:47, said:

Admittedly, the 1S advance was poor .

But then, after the 3D! cue, Advancer compounded the error by only bidding 3S ( afraid of going past 3NT... but then Advancer should have bid 3NT with 1/2 stop in ♦ ) .... passed out ... making 3S + 2 .
[ I can see the "normal" 2S instead of 1S..... but 3S instead of 1S ? ( on A x x x x ) ] .

Overcaller's hand was:
K J 10 9 x
A Q 10 x
x
A x x

Any "blame" there ?
( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S
( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S
( p ) - ??

#1 X - I can live with X, standard is X, but there were times, X would have been considered ok.
#2 1S - this is very pessimistic, but ok, maybe old school really required 10HCP for a jump
#3 3D - is hide and seek, 3D should deny a constructive bid, 3D is just asking, does not show
anything
#4 3S - is, ... well is bidding a hand, that promises nothing, hiding the fact, that one has near
inv. values

I make it 50 - 50, I dont like 3D, but agree, that 3S is ...
If you stress it, I make it 51% for the 3S bidder.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[wank]

well, the doubler made some strange actions but he's clearly not to blame as he showed a much stronger hand, albeit fewer spades, than he actually held.

south bid his 9 count with a 5 card suit the same way he'd bid a yarborough with 4. oh dear.



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