[TWO4BRIDGE]

the_clown said:

Quote

I think its way better to play 5♥ [kickback RKC for ♦, K-ask ] as asking for the highest (or lowest) king available. So after 5♥, u respond 5♠ if u dont have the ♠ King, 5NT spade King and no Heart King, 6Clubs, Spade and Heart King but no Club king etc.

I found it very interesting for the hands shown... but...

...I've been puzzled a little bit when thinking about alternate holdings.
How does replier show ♥K only, or ♣K only, or ♥K and ♣K but no ♠K ??

[blackshoe]

Spiral scan: ask for the lowest side king (♣ here). If he doesn't have it, next step. If he has it, step 2. If he has it and the ♥K, step 3. If he has ♣K, ♥K, and ♠K, step 4. In each of the first two cases, asker's next step relay asks for the first K that was denied. In each of the last two cases, asker's next step relay asks for side queens in the same order.

[Free]

I guess after denying a King, asker can bid some step to ask for that King in particular.

Example:
...-5♥-5♠(no ♠K)-?

5NT = ♥K?
6♣ = not interested in ♥K, but do you have ♣K?
6♦ = never mind, I needed ♠K

Similar if he has shown 1 King and denied another:
...-5♥-5NT(♠K but not ♥K)-?

6♣ = ♣K?
6♦ = never mind, I needed ♥K

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Free, on 2011-August-29, 07:10, said:

I guess after denying a King, asker can bid some step to ask for that King in particular.

Example:
...-5♥-5♠(no ♠K)-?

5NT = ♥K?
6♣ = not interested in ♥K, but do you have ♣K?
6♦ = never mind, I needed ♠K

Similar if he has shown 1 King and denied another:
...-5♥-5NT(♠K but not ♥K)-?

6♣ = ♣K?
6♦ = never mind, I needed ♥K

I'll take a stab at the 3rd option:

5H! - 6C! ( ♠K and ♥K )
6D = never mind, I needed the ♣K

[Free]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-August-29, 12:52, said:

I'll take a stab at the 3rd option:

5H! - 6C! ( ♠K and ♥K )
6D = never mind, I needed the ♣K

Well done

[Zelandakh]

What has one gained with this approach over standard? For example:-

5S = SK, may have a second side king (now 6C asks for CK)
... - 5NT
... - ... - 6C = CK
... - ... - 6D = SK only
... - ... - 6H (and higher) = HK
5N = HK, no SK (now 6C asks for CK)
6C = CK only
6D = no side king
6H (and higher) = 3 side kings

I am generally a big fan of all sorts of denial cue bids but here you still seem to have enough space to sort everything out.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Thx, Zel.

I was unaware of the " all 3 outside Kings" reply :

Diam are trump:
5H! ( specific K-ask ) - 6H! = all 3 outside K's

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-September-05, 15:27, said:

Diam are trump:
5H! ( specific K-ask ) - 6H! = all 3 outside K's

Or better yet,

6H = 3 side kings plus HQ (now 6S asks for SQ [6NT negative]; 7C asks for CQ for 7NT)
6S = 3 side kings plus SQ, no HQ (now 7C asks for CQ for 7NT)
6NT = 3 side kings without major queen (now 7C asks for CQ for 7NT)

This kind of scheme allows for partner having investigated kings (and queens) in order to get to 6/7NT rather than 7D. Best of all it is natural and thus not too difficult to remember. I suspect that "way better" for the clown's approach was an overbid even if it does have a technical advantage somewhere.