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Scoring: IMP
ALL VUL ,IMP
N E S W
2D - 2H -
- 2S X -
- =
2D alerted as weak 2 diamonds by N
2H no alert
i want to know if NS was damaged by the misinformation
and should they get a adjustment?
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will you adjust? 2SX-2------>ave+
#1
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Posted 2004-September-30, 07:22
hi
ALL VUL ,IMP
N E S W
2D - 2H -
- 2S X -
- =
2D alerted as weak 2 diamonds by N
2H no alert
i want to know if NS was damaged by the misinformation
and should they get a adjustment?
ALL VUL ,IMP
N E S W
2D - 2H -
- 2S X -
- =
2D alerted as weak 2 diamonds by N
2H no alert
i want to know if NS was damaged by the misinformation
and should they get a adjustment?
#2
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- Interests:Bridge, what else?
Posted 2004-September-30, 07:34
This seems like an unclear situation. Let's handle the possibilities.
Possibility number one. Norht, who bid 2D with three small and five spades has an agreement that 2Di is a weak two in diamonds (as he alerted). Then 2Di was a reckless psyche considering the condition of contest (vul at imps)...but he got away with it. I Would not adjust. North took a shot with 2D bid and it worked.
Possibility number two. North plays 2D as "weak two" in either major, and alerted it inappropriately as "weak" which you took to mean in diamonds. Here, the alert wasn't adequate, and you might need protection. However, an odd thing happened. IF this was a weak two in either major, then south's 2H bid would be pass correct so why did North with spades pass?
Now a third, ugly possibility exist. Whether 2D was suppose to be weak two in diamonds, or 2D was suppose to be weak two in either major, your opponents managed to get to their best fit of 2H. If north had a weak two in diamonds, then south's bid of 2H doesn't make sense. And if north's 2D was suppose to be weak two in major and he passed teh pass/correct, doesn't make sense. Anyone is entitled to be lucky when they psyche, and to be lucky when they take a position, and one hand proves nothing. But this is very suspecious auction that would spur me to investigate the pair involved furhter. Maybe they psyche too frequently and have learned to pick up on when a psyche might be at hand... maybe something even worse.
As to what would I do on this hand? I would let the result stand as long as the agreement for 2D was a weak two in diamonds.
Ben
Possibility number one. Norht, who bid 2D with three small and five spades has an agreement that 2Di is a weak two in diamonds (as he alerted). Then 2Di was a reckless psyche considering the condition of contest (vul at imps)...but he got away with it. I Would not adjust. North took a shot with 2D bid and it worked.
Possibility number two. North plays 2D as "weak two" in either major, and alerted it inappropriately as "weak" which you took to mean in diamonds. Here, the alert wasn't adequate, and you might need protection. However, an odd thing happened. IF this was a weak two in either major, then south's 2H bid would be pass correct so why did North with spades pass?
Now a third, ugly possibility exist. Whether 2D was suppose to be weak two in diamonds, or 2D was suppose to be weak two in either major, your opponents managed to get to their best fit of 2H. If north had a weak two in diamonds, then south's bid of 2H doesn't make sense. And if north's 2D was suppose to be weak two in major and he passed teh pass/correct, doesn't make sense. Anyone is entitled to be lucky when they psyche, and to be lucky when they take a position, and one hand proves nothing. But this is very suspecious auction that would spur me to investigate the pair involved furhter. Maybe they psyche too frequently and have learned to pick up on when a psyche might be at hand... maybe something even worse.
As to what would I do on this hand? I would let the result stand as long as the agreement for 2D was a weak two in diamonds.
Ben
--Ben--
#3
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Posted 2004-September-30, 07:54
inquiry, on Sep 30 2004, 04:34 PM, said:
This seems like an unclear situation. Let's handle the possibilities.
Possibility number one. Norht, who bid 2D with three small and five spades has an agreement that 2Di is a weak two in diamonds (as he alerted). Then 2Di was a reckless psyche considering the condition of contest (vul at imps)...but he got away with it. I Would not adjust. North took a shot with 2D bid and it worked.
Possibility number two. North plays 2D as "weak two" in either major, and alerted it inappropriately as "weak" which you took to mean in diamonds. Here, the alert wasn't adequate, and you might need protection. However, an odd thing happened. IF this was a weak two in either major, then south's 2H bid would be pass correct so why did North with spades pass?
Now a third, ugly possibility exist. Whether 2D was suppose to be weak two in diamonds, or 2D was suppose to be weak two in either major, your opponents managed to get to their best fit of 2H. If north had a weak two in diamonds, then south's bid of 2H doesn't make sense. And if north's 2D was suppose to be weak two in major and he passed teh pass/correct, doesn't make sense. Anyone is entitled to be lucky when they psyche, and to be lucky when they take a position, and one hand proves nothing. But this is very suspecious auction that would spur me to investigate the pair involved furhter. Maybe they psyche too frequently and have learned to pick up on when a psyche might be at hand... maybe something even worse.
As to what would I do on this hand? I would let the result stand as long as the agreement for 2D was a weak two in diamonds.
Ben
Possibility number one. Norht, who bid 2D with three small and five spades has an agreement that 2Di is a weak two in diamonds (as he alerted). Then 2Di was a reckless psyche considering the condition of contest (vul at imps)...but he got away with it. I Would not adjust. North took a shot with 2D bid and it worked.
Possibility number two. North plays 2D as "weak two" in either major, and alerted it inappropriately as "weak" which you took to mean in diamonds. Here, the alert wasn't adequate, and you might need protection. However, an odd thing happened. IF this was a weak two in either major, then south's 2H bid would be pass correct so why did North with spades pass?
Now a third, ugly possibility exist. Whether 2D was suppose to be weak two in diamonds, or 2D was suppose to be weak two in either major, your opponents managed to get to their best fit of 2H. If north had a weak two in diamonds, then south's bid of 2H doesn't make sense. And if north's 2D was suppose to be weak two in major and he passed teh pass/correct, doesn't make sense. Anyone is entitled to be lucky when they psyche, and to be lucky when they take a position, and one hand proves nothing. But this is very suspecious auction that would spur me to investigate the pair involved furhter. Maybe they psyche too frequently and have learned to pick up on when a psyche might be at hand... maybe something even worse.
As to what would I do on this hand? I would let the result stand as long as the agreement for 2D was a weak two in diamonds.
Ben
One quick comment: Many strong pairs who play Multi will pass partner's "pass or correct" 2♥ advance when they hold a weak 2 in Spades.
Alderaan delenda est
#4
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Posted 2004-September-30, 08:00
The 2♥ bid doesn't make sense if 2♦ was weak two in diamonds, but the double (which is usually for penalty after weak two opening) is even more strange. The "fielded psychs" alarm bells should be ringing.
Btw, if 2♦ was multi or weak two in either major, I don't think the pass by North would be _that_ unusual. It would be a psych, yes. But not such an uncommon position to psych. (Yes, most would do it only when not vuln, but stranger bids have been made.)
My personal guess is that 2♦ was a misclick, and that South is just a bad bidder who got lucky.
Btw, if 2♦ was multi or weak two in either major, I don't think the pass by North would be _that_ unusual. It would be a psych, yes. But not such an uncommon position to psych. (Yes, most would do it only when not vuln, but stranger bids have been made.)
My personal guess is that 2♦ was a misclick, and that South is just a bad bidder who got lucky.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#5
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Posted 2004-September-30, 08:02
hrothgar, on Sep 30 2004, 09:54 AM, said:
One quick comment: Many strong pairs who play Multi will pass partner's "pass or correct" 2♥ advance when they hold a weak 2 in Spades.
I have passed this 2♥ bid with spades as well.. but never at imps vulnerable.. .down 100 a trick is no joy.
But if this WAS a multi 2D bid, they 1) incorrectly alerted 2D, and 2) failed to alert 2H, so an adjustment would be in order.
Ben
--Ben--
#6
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Posted 2004-September-30, 08:06
sorry to say that it is WEST who start the bidding ............ 
and 2D alerted as weak 2♦ by W,2♥ no alert
Many strong pairs who play Multi will pass partner's "pass or correct" 2♥ advance when they hold a weak 2 in Spades.
i believe it is true,however,however is it the case for vul at IMP?
P.S how to use the quote here?
N E S W
2D
- 2H - -
2S X - -
=
and 2D alerted as weak 2♦ by W,2♥ no alert
Many strong pairs who play Multi will pass partner's "pass or correct" 2♥ advance when they hold a weak 2 in Spades.
i believe it is true,however,however is it the case for vul at IMP?
P.S how to use the quote here?
N E S W
2D
- 2H - -
2S X - -
=
#7
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Posted 2004-September-30, 08:25
ok...
Here is a few things you will want to fix... you show the dealer as north (look inside the hand diagram). Clearly EAST would have an opening bid, so the bidding will never make it to West for him to open. so Dealer must be south or west.
Second, more than one space always shows as one space only, thus all those spaces you have before the 2D bid do not print.
Several ways to fix this. .. put some dashes in, like this...
ALL VUL ,IMP
N E S W
------2D
P 2H P P
2S X P P
Second, use the hidden text tag and hide the filler... to create the illusion of spaces (use you mouse to highlight the hidden text
N E S W
- 2H - -
2S X --
=
Reoder the N,E,S,W header with WEST first to bid...
W N E S
2D - 2H -
- 2S X -
- =
Use the hard space command (all of the following together without space between will create a space that always shows up, string six of these together to get six spaces) & # 1 6 0 ;
N E S W
2D
P 2H P P
2S X P P
But ok, to the problem at hand, with WEST opening 2D
1) 2D was alerted correctly
2) 2H was some kind of psyche, not sure why,
3) West gambled a pass (I assume 2H was forcing, if not, must be alerted)
4) 2H is horrible spot vul for EW, so they didn't know what they were during
5) Norrth's balance with an unlimited LHO and maybe opposite a partner who didn't open (who really dealt) was probably ill advised...
There is no reason to adjust this result. Good biddig by EW? Of course not. But they violated no rule and certainly had no secret or unannounced agreement. The result stands.
Here is a few things you will want to fix... you show the dealer as north (look inside the hand diagram). Clearly EAST would have an opening bid, so the bidding will never make it to West for him to open. so Dealer must be south or west.
Second, more than one space always shows as one space only, thus all those spaces you have before the 2D bid do not print.
Several ways to fix this. .. put some dashes in, like this...
ALL VUL ,IMP
N E S W
------2D
P 2H P P
2S X P P
Second, use the hidden text tag and hide the filler... to create the illusion of spaces (use you mouse to highlight the hidden text
N E S W
Spoiler
2D- 2H - -
2S X --
=
Reoder the N,E,S,W header with WEST first to bid...
W N E S
2D - 2H -
- 2S X -
- =
Use the hard space command (all of the following together without space between will create a space that always shows up, string six of these together to get six spaces) & # 1 6 0 ;
N E S W
2D
P 2H P P
2S X P P
But ok, to the problem at hand, with WEST opening 2D
1) 2D was alerted correctly
2) 2H was some kind of psyche, not sure why,
3) West gambled a pass (I assume 2H was forcing, if not, must be alerted)
4) 2H is horrible spot vul for EW, so they didn't know what they were during
5) Norrth's balance with an unlimited LHO and maybe opposite a partner who didn't open (who really dealt) was probably ill advised...
There is no reason to adjust this result. Good biddig by EW? Of course not. But they violated no rule and certainly had no secret or unannounced agreement. The result stands.
--Ben--
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