[Cascade]

1♣ (1♥) 1♠ (3♥)
NB (NB) 4♥

What does this mean?

What shapes are permissible for responder?

What do you expect opener to do now with various hands?

Does this change in a weak no trump or four-card major structure?

One further not for us it was almost impossible for responder to have 4+ clubs since we can fit jump over 1♥.

[tolvyrj]

First things fist, its game forcing . Secondly, prd has very few hearts, my guess is zero. Third question bout permissible shapes is a bit harder, since i dont know what for excample dbl here is in u sys, if its for penalties or for take out. Would 3 S here be forcing or just competetive ? And is 4D here forcing or competetive?
Two possibilities comes into my mind, prd has some kind of a three suiter in his hand and if u r sure he dont have 4 clubs, my guess he has 3 of them; 5-0-5-3 perhaps also 4-1-5-3 is possible, but then S r good and prd has plenty of side tricks ( of course 5-1-4-3 is an option).
Second option is that 4H is an auto splinter; then he has powerful one suiter in spades or 2 suiter with S and D; again if u r sure he dont have 4C, in this case his H stopper can also be an ace not singleton or void.
In case of weak Nt u prd knows u dont have weak balanced hand, four card majors...not sure, dont think so.
I would not bother my little head about the question what prd has; this is a kind of a headache convention bid; show me yours i`ll show mine later. Question is what do u bid now, S is first option if u have 3 or more of them, seconly D if u have 4 or more of them, and finally C if options 1 or 2 r inavailable. What would 4Nt be in here, natural i guess.
As long as i dont have to be Sherlock Holmes, im happy to be just Watson

[ahydra]

Being British I play 4cM and weak NT and so wouldn't be surprised if responder had clubs, spades and a shortage in hearts - perhaps 5134. But he might also have something like 7033. I think something like 5053 would probably X rather than 4H.

If you exclude a club fit, then it's almost certainly a strong hand with spades with shortage in hearts [5H would be a strong hand with spades with no shortage].

This is awkward for opener though - he has no idea which shape he's facing. If he has a suitable hand he can bid 4NT asking regular aces (no suit agreed), sign off in 6 clubs and responder corrects [a little dangerous as responder may think opener has a boatload of clubs]. Otherwise I suggest he just bids 4S or 5C depending on how many spades he has.

ahydra

[the hog]

Autosplinter. Good spades, stiff H.

[CSGibson]

The most likely shape for the spade bidder is 7-0-3-3. We have the inference of no fit jump, and another inference that opener doesn't have a biddable diamond suit, since he would have a natural and (I'm assuming) forcing 4♦ call. With more hearts and game forcing values, partner would double 3♥.

[mcphee]

agree with splinter in support of himself in S.

[han]

Slam try in spades, says nothing about hearts.

[MrAce]

So are you all saying that he would not bid 4♥ with

AKxxxx Axx x AQx ?

Or

KQJTx xxx x AJxx with this ? Another huge hand due to xxx ♥

Why is it strictly dedicated to ♥ splinter or self sufficient big ♠ hands only ?

Perhaps some may suggest DBL of 3♥ but its not hard to sense the double fit for both sides if we held that hand.

[gnasher]

With AKxxxx Axx x AQx I'd make a takeout double. There's no chance that partner will leave it in, and double will get you more useful information than 4♥.

In some partnerships KQJTx xxx x AJxx would have made a fit jump, but if that isn't available I agree that 4♥ ought to include this sort of hand - double is already quite overloaded.

I prefer to avoid this problem earlier in the auction, by distinguishing between 4-, 5- and 6-card spade suits immediately over the 1♥ overcall.

[agumperz]

Cascade, on 2011-January-24, 22:42, said:

1♣ (1♥) 1♠ (3♥)
NB (NB) 4♥

What does this mean?

What shapes are permissible for responder?

What do you expect opener to do now with various hands?

Does this change in a weak no trump or four-card major structure?

One further not for us it was almost impossible for responder to have 4+ clubs since we can fit jump over 1♥.

It could show:
* Spades and clubs, GF values, and heart shortness. For example, Jxxxx, --, AQxx, AQJx. (Responder did not fit-jump since his values are in the minors rather than the blacks)
* Primary spades and secondary clubs and offer COG: KJxxxx, x, AKx, AJx


Andrew

Andrew

[straube]

We play it as choice of game offering 2 or 3 different strains (not NT). Opener is asked to make the cheapest meaningful rebid...

4S-spades
.....4N by responder now shows diamonds but willing to hear clubs
4N-diamonds
5C-clubs only

I would expect that partner's hand is unsuitable for double (short hearts?)

[whereagles]

Cascade, on 2011-January-24, 22:42, said:

1♣ (1♥) 1♠ (3♥)
NB (NB) 4♥

> What does this mean?

Strong hand, I guess.


> What shapes are permissible for responder?

Since 4♦ would surely have been forcing and 4♣ muddy, I'd say either a bucketload of spades or club support or both.


> What do you expect opener to do now with various hands?

Bid spades if he has 3 of them. Else bid something descriptive. I'd say 4NT should be natural here because opener can hardly have a medium or better hand (15+ hcp).


> Does this change in a weak no trump or four-card major structure?

It means the 4NT bid of above would be off-shape because opener would have doubled 3♥ with the 15-17 balanced hand.


One further not for us it was almost impossible for responder to have 4+ clubs since we can fit jump over 1♥.

All of the above stands, with like a club less to be expected from responder.