[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

1♣:1♦
1♥:?

---

Playing 'xyz', what is your plan here?

[mike777]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 07:25 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

1♣:1♦
1♥:?

---

Playing 'xyz', what is your plan here?

does pard promise 5c and 4h(walsh)?
I assume yes...so now I will try.....2c forcing.....2d and then 3c......invite in clubs.

option two is to bid 1nt over 1c.....easy to lose d suit when playing walsh.

[jillybean]

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 05:34 PM, said:

does pard promise 5c and 4h(walsh)?
I assume yes...so now I will try.....2c forcing.....2d and then 3c......invite in clubs.

No, partner can be 4423, 3424 etc

[mike777]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 07:40 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 05:34 PM, said:

does pard promise 5c and 4h(walsh)?
I assume yes...so now I will try.....2c forcing.....2d and then 3c......invite in clubs.

No, partner can be 4423, 3424 etc

ok then prefer 1nt over 1c pls.

I guess I am forced to bid 1nt now given op.

[peachy]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 07:40 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 05:34 PM, said:

does pard promise 5c and 4h(walsh)?
I assume yes...so now I will try.....2c forcing.....2d and then 3c......invite in clubs.

No, partner can be 4423, 3424 etc

deleted

[jillybean]

We are NOT playing walsh

[bluecalm]

1NT;
I think the hand is tad too weak for 2NT but those 11 counts are always a problem when playing 15-17NT and you need good understanding with your partner how you solve it (ex: open 1nt on great 14's; make light invites with good 14's; make more invites with 11's)
I also think your choice of not playing walsh is good one

[Mbodell]

what is 2nt? Is it a transfer to clubs or a natural invite (I play both with different partners)? If it is a transfer to clubs I probably bid 2♣ - 2♦ - 2nt showing an invitational balanced hand. If 2nt directly shows a natural invitational hand then the sequence 2♣ - 2♦ - 2nt might well show an invitational hand with club support for partner. So in both cases my plan is to bid 2♣ and then 2nt, but they might mean different things.

I don't love only having Qx of spades, but that is sort of a stopper, right?

[jillybean]

x:y
z:

2♣ forces 2♦, responder may pass or follow up with an invitational bid
2♦ Game forcing & artificial
2♥/2♠ signoff
2N Relay to 3♣ which is usually to play. If responder bids again, she has a slammish hand and auction continues
3♣/♦/♥/♠ Game forcing

Qx is not a stopper in my book

[bluecalm]

Quote

Qx is not a stopper in my book

It doesn't matter imo.
You want to play NT from your hand and it's very hard to find Jxx to Qx stopper for example. They didn't overcall so maybe 3nt is the best even opposite xxx of spades.
I wouldn't worry at all abotu ♠ stopper and focus on judgement problem of this hand (is it worth an invitation or not).

[mike777]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 09:20 PM, said:

x:y
z:

2♣ forces 2♦, responder may pass or follow up with an invitational bid
2♦ Game forcing & artificial
2♥/2♠ signoff
2N Relay to 3♣ which is usually to play. If responder bids again, she has a slammish hand and auction continues
3♣/♦/♥/♠ Game forcing

Qx is not a stopper in my book 

jilly



delete



..ok you want to play 2nt as some sort of relay.....

many do not play this.

[jjbrr]

Qx is a stopper

[BudH]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 07:25 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

1♣:1♦
1♥:?

---

Playing 'xyz', what is your plan here?

1C 1D
1H 2C (relay to 2D)
2D 2NT

or

1C 1D
1H 3C

The 1H bid guarantees at least four clubs in the system I play. Also, in the system I play, bidding the 2C relay and 3C next shows longer clubs than diamonds.


That Qx of spades is too tempting, hoping for Axx or Kxx in partner's hand, so I'd probably choose the first option.

[jillybean]

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

..ok you want to play 2nt as some sort of relay.....

many do not play this.

What do they play?

[mike777]

jillybean, on Aug 14 2010, 12:12 AM, said:

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

..ok you want to play 2nt as some sort of relay.....

many do not play this.

What do they play?

direct 2nt=invite


2c and then 2nt=invite

in theory should there be difference ok......




xyz and then 3c=weak...


3d..3h...3s= gf

[bluecalm]

Quote

2♣ forces 2♦, responder may pass or follow up with an invitational bid
2♦ Game forcing & artificial
2♥/2♠ signoff
2N Relay to 3♣ which is usually to play. If responder bids again, she has a slammish hand and auction continues
3♣/♦/♥/♠ Game forcing

I think this is pretty good scheme.
The biggest disadvantage is that you need many bids to make simple invite giving them chance to make lead directing double.
On the other hand you gain a lot with 4M-5+♣ hands and invites are overrated anyway so it's not like the problem arises often.

[Mbodell]

jillybean, on Aug 13 2010, 09:12 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 13 2010, 08:31 PM, said:

..ok you want to play 2nt as some sort of relay.....

many do not play this.

What do they play?

What I mentioned in my earlier post. You play one version that I also play. But there is a second version that I also play with some partners where 2nt is a natural invite, not a relay to 3c. A direct 3c is signoff. And 2c-2d-2nt is a balanced invite with 4 card support for the openers minor (2c-2d-3c is still a club invite).

Some of the advantages of the second way is:

1. People forget that 2nt is a transfer to clubs and bid it when they have an invite (often leading to a continuation of 3♣ .... 3nt).
2. When you have a balanced invite you (sometimes) bid it quicker taking away chances from your opponents to make (or not make! the dog that didn't bark and all that Holmes) a lead directing double or 2 level call.
3. When you have two ways to invite and can clarify if you have support for the minor or not you give partner a chance to better evaluate if they should accept the invite or not, and also give them a chance to bail out in 3 minor.

Also, no matter which way you play, I'm not sure that 2♠ should be sign off in the auction 1m-1♥-1nt-2♠. That's kind of a responder reverse. Clearly 2♥ in the sequence 1x-1♠-1nt-2♥ is signoff as is 2♠ in the sequence 1x-1♠-1nt-2♠. This might mean with a signoff hand and 44 in the majors, for instance, that you plan ahead and bid ♠ before ♥ planing a 1♠-1nt-2♥ auction (I've discussed this and play this with at least one partner). But YMMV.

[bluecalm]

nvm

[Free]

jillybean, on Aug 14 2010, 02:33 AM, said:

We are NOT playing walsh

1NT

If playing Walsh I'd invite in ♣.