[gurgistan]

Scoring: IMP

In an uncontested auction, Partner as East opens 1♣ [His hand shown]. I respond 1♠. He rebids 2 ♠. I rebid 3♠. He now bids game. Would anyone have splintered to 4♦ to see if a shape based slam was on rather than just putting it into game?

---

[inquiry]

Well, 2♠ is a huge underbid, splinter or not. The hand certainly is stong enough for 4♦ splinter (counting support points for spades)... but I have another gimmic here, but I don't object to splinter.

[peachy]

I am starting to catch on...finally.
The OP is testing how long it takes for people to figure it out his questions here are not serious.

[gurgistan]

peachy, on Aug 3 2010, 01:55 AM, said:

I am starting to catch on...finally.
The OP is testing how long it takes for people to figure it out his questions here are not serious.

All my questions are serious.

The hand that started this thread was posted because all 16 tables found themselves in 4♠ with most tables like ourselves making 2 overtricks.

In our bidding sequence the only way I see us bidding 6♠ was if opener had rebid 3♦ then I would have counted the fact that we have no wasted values and found 6♠.

Yet no-one found 6♠ at 16 tables but we all found 4♠.

I was trying to guage how realistic the splinter would have been and indeed if it would have been understood as a splinter.

[pooltuna]

gurgistan, on Aug 2 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

In an uncontested auction, Partner as East opens 1♣ [His hand shown]. I respond 1♠. He rebids 2 ♠. I rebid 3♠. He now bids game. Would anyone have splintered to 4♦ to see if a shape based slam was on rather than just putting it into game?

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since 2♦ is a reverse IMO 3♦ would be the splinter and 4♦ would be exclusion

[ONEferBRID]

3D! ... perfect hand for a mini-splinter ( jump-reverse splinter, a la Tuna ) .

[ArcLight]

pooltuna, on Aug 3 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

gurgistan, on Aug 2 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

In an uncontested auction, Partner as East opens 1♣ [His hand shown]. I respond 1♠. He rebids 2 ♠. I rebid 3♠. He now bids game. Would anyone have splintered to 4♦ to see if a shape based slam was on rather than just putting it into game? 

---

since 2♦ is a reverse IMO 3♦ would be the splinter and 4♦ would be exclusion

Wouldn't 3♦ be a Jump Shift by opener, showing a 2 suited game forcing hand?

Althought it seems wasteful to need a Reverse (2D) and a Jump Shift (3D), so maybe in this case 3D could have a meaning other than jump shift, showing strength.


Splinters are fairly common, so I'm surprised more tables didn't see this bid.

[pooltuna]

ArcLight, on Aug 3 2010, 12:07 PM, said:

pooltuna, on Aug 3 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

gurgistan, on Aug 2 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

In an uncontested auction, Partner as East opens 1♣ [His hand shown]. I respond 1♠. He rebids 2 ♠. I rebid 3♠. He now bids game. Would anyone have splintered to 4♦ to see if a shape based slam was on rather than just putting it into game? 

---

since 2♦ is a reverse IMO 3♦ would be the splinter and 4♦ would be exclusion

Wouldn't 3♦ be a Jump Shift by opener, showing a 2 suited game forcing hand?



Althought it seems wasteful to need a Reverse (2D) and a Jump Shift (3D), so maybe in this case 3D could have a meaning other than jump shift, showing strength.


Splinters are fairly common, so I'm surprised more tables didn't see this bid.

Quote

Wouldn't 3♦ be a Jump Shift by opener, showing a 2 suited game forcing hand?

No, that is what 2♦ shows

[ArcLight]

>>No, that is what 2♦ shows

2♦ is a reverse, not a Jump shift. The Reverse is forcing for one round, while teh Jump Shift is game forcing.
Now this might be wasteful, having 2 bids to show stong hands, maybe.
So maybe its better that 3♦ have a different meaning than Jump Shift, such as a splinter. Maybe.

But in "standard bidding" I think 3D would not be a splinter, it would be a Jumpshift. In standard bidding, a splinter is defined as a double jump.

[cherdanno]

I don't know standard bidding of the 60s, but at least since the 90s some form of splinter is standard.

[nigel_k]

In ancient times, a jump reverse was a natural game force. But back then, a reverse after a one level response was nonforcing and splinters didn't exist. When people started using reverses as a one round force, they switched to using a jump reverse as a cue bid. Splinters came after that.

My understanding of 'standard' bidding is that a jump one level higher than a forcing bid is a splinter. It may or may not be a double jump.

[pooltuna]

ArcLight, on Aug 3 2010, 03:45 PM, said:

>>No, that is what 2♦ shows

2♦ is a reverse, not a Jump shift. The Reverse is forcing for one round, while teh Jump Shift is game forcing.
Now this might be wasteful, having 2 bids to show stong hands, maybe.
So maybe its better that 3♦ have a different meaning than Jump Shift, such as a splinter. Maybe.

But in "standard bidding" I think 3D would not be a splinter, it would be a Jumpshift. In standard bidding, a splinter is defined as a double jump.

3♦ in this auction TMK is not a standard method of showing a strong hand with long ♦ and longer ♣.

[quiddity]

Lacking the 3D splinter or similar gadgets I think I would just rebid 3♠. 4♦ feels like an overbid to me if partner can respond light. I would make that bid with an 18-count and a stiff.

[Bbradley62]

quiddity, on Aug 3 2010, 06:40 PM, said:

Lacking the 3D splinter or similar gadgets I think I would just rebid 3♠.  4♦ feels like an overbid to me if partner can respond light.  I would make that bid with an 18-count and a stiff.

I agree. Partner could easily have AJxx, xxx, Qxx, xxx, losing a♣, a♦ and 2 or 3 ♥. Of course, partner could also hold Axxx, Axx, xxx, Qxx, making 6. Since South was dealer and East opened, he can't have much more than that.

Before being surprised that no one bid slam on a hand that makes 12 tricks, I'd want to see the two hands together. If it makes 12 only because the ♥A is onside and ♣ split 3-3, then it's right to not be there.

[bluecalm]

Lacking any gadgetry I would 3♠ with this hand.
It's not gf hand just worth an invite. If have 3♦ available as minisplinter then I bid that.
How he bids 2♠ with that is beyond me.

[neilkaz]

bluecalm, on Aug 7 2010, 10:18 AM, said:

Lacking any gadgetry I would 3♠ with this hand.
It's not gf hand just worth an invite. If have 3♦ available as minisplinter then I bid that.
How he bids 2♠ with that is beyond me.

We agree.

Oh.. how does anyone bid only 2♠? HCPitis is the disease that causes this.

Advice to B/I ...Rather than just blindly counting HCP (oooo 15 so that mean I raise to only 2♠ ) count HCP but much more importantly look at things that can take likely help take extra tricks and here there there's that D stiff so we can likely get extra tricks ruffing some and we have nice ♣ that may need only a little help to produce extra tricks.

2♠ is a BIG underbid and will result in many missed games/slams.

[bluecalm]

Quote

HCPitis is the disease that causes this.

Really ? I thouht 15hcp is automatic 3♠
I doubt there are any 15's that I don't bid 3♠ with (assuming 15-17 1nt opening)