[ajm218]

Scoring: IMP

(4♥) x p ?

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rotated for convenience

[effervesce]

5♠ for me, although 4NT (2 places to play)-> 5♠ is also possible.

[Fluffy]

I bid 5♠ at the table wich shows a lack of heart stopper

[gnasher]

In the only partnership where I've discussed the difference, 5♠ is a slam try either without heart control or with a slow heart loser (eg Ax); 4NT followed by 5♠ is a slam try with heart control.

[Fluffy]

and 5♥?

[gnasher]

My system file said:

5S = 1-suited in spades, with at least one heart loser (but not necessarily denying control, eg could have Ax)
4NT then 5S = 1-suited in spades, without heart losers – suggests gaps in the minors
4NT then 5H = agreeing the minor, first-round control
4NT then 5NT = agreeing the minor, no first-round heart-control
5H = S + another; can stop in 5S
5NT = 3-suited

We didn't spend a lot of time on this. The main idea was to make sure we had some agreement rather than none.

[jdonn]

5♠ which I play slam try without heart control but doesn't require partner to bid slam even if he has one, if he is very minimal.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Feb 12 2010, 09:04 AM, said:

My system file said:

5S = 1-suited in spades, with at least one heart loser (but not necessarily denying control, eg could have Ax)
4NT then 5S = 1-suited in spades, without heart losers – suggests gaps in the minors
4NT then 5H = agreeing the minor, first-round control
4NT then 5NT = agreeing the minor, no first-round heart-control
5H = S + another; can stop in 5S
5NT = 3-suited

We didn't spend a lot of time on this. The main idea was to make sure we had some agreement rather than none.

Wouldn't you be better off playing 5♥ as a slam try with heart control, and 4NT only including 2-suited hands? That way you can stop in 5 of a minor with spades and a minor.

[rogerclee]

If 5S forces to slam opposite a heart control then I would do that, but like some others I don't play that it forces to slam, just invites it. This is a problem because even hands like Kxxx x xxxx Kxxx (fill in whatever diamond points you want) make slam totally reasonable.

So it helps to think about how often partner will be minimum/sub-minimum with a heart control, compared to how often he will simply not have a heart control. However it is also of note that if you bid 5S and partner bids 6H, now you can bid the grand (IMO), whereas you will virtually never hear a heart cuebid out of partner if you bid 4N.

[pooltuna]

ajm218, on Feb 12 2010, 04:25 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ AQTxxx ♥ xx ♦   ♣ AJxxx

(4♥) x p ?

rotated for convenience

well not sure which meta agreement would apply here over 5♠ but suspect it is the "do you have 2nd or better round control of their suit" rather than "If you have good trumps go to 6" but doubt remains.