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Official BBO Hijacked Thread Thread No, it's not about that

#2741 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 03:50

View Postmikeh, on 2015-July-28, 15:58, said:

Now only if those who deny the reality of climate change had a real argument, rather than cherry-picked and (often) massaged data, taken out of context, maybe they wouldn't find themselves being described in pejorative terms? Nah, fixed delusional beliefs rarely give in to reality....there is always a way to rationalize everything. The average temperature of the world climbing every year? No...we can show that in one or even a handful of locations, the temperature isn't rising. The greenhouse gas level has risen in recent times in virtual lockstep with human activities? No...we can show that the models used by climate scientists aren't precisely correct, so let's ignore what they have to say about anything until they become infallible in every detail. And so on.

Climate change deniers would be merely the subject of ridicule were it not for the truly horrific consequences of their belief systems. As it is, it seems very likely that future generations will look back on people like you and regard them as guilty of the most serious crimes against humanity of all history. Not to mention the mass extinctions that are already underway...we were already living through one of the greatest extinction eras in the history of life on earth, but global warming is going to add countless species to the roll of the dead/extinct.

Whether it is salmon unable to spawn in the overly warm waters of the Columbia river, or honeybees seeing their range of habitat shrink by 300 kms of latitude over the past several decades, or mass fish kills due to the collapse of the underlying ecology made up of life forms that can tolerate only a small range of temperatures, or polar bears losing habitat as the ice sheets shrink, or the spread of diseases like West Nile as its geographical range increases with increased temperature....it goes on and on and on, and people like you find all kinds of reasons for humans to avoid doing anything about it. So what if the consensus view is flawed in some details? So what if the problem may turn out not to be quite as horrifically destructive as some predict? Ah, why bother? You're a waste of effort.


A few ignorant people deny that climate change is happening, but what most of the deniers argue is that the effect is not man made. This is of course much more difficult to definitively prove or rebut.
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#2742 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 12:00

Is the climate changing? Certainly. How could it not?

There are so many, many variables. Is human action one (or more) of them? Certainly. How could it not be?

Is the current trend in climate change a looming catastrophe? Maybe. Hard to know, since our models seem to all be flawed in some way or other. I'd say there are other things one might call "looming catastrophes" that are, or should be, of more concern. Some of those are being ignored completely. See the recent thread on the tectonic situation in the American Northwest, for example.

Are some people trying to use the presumed "looming catastrophe" in climate change for their own gain? There sure are. On both sides, I suspect.

Should we ignore those people completely? Well, no, but we should take everything they say with a grain of salt. I don't trust people whose agenda seems to be fear-mongering for their own benefit. I don't trust people who say "don't worry, be happy, stick your head in the sand" either.

What should we do? Perhaps deal with some of the problems we know how to handle, while continuing to try to figure out how climate change works and whether there's anything good that we can do to influence it.

Bottom line, for me, is that the planet is a very big, very complex machine, and since we don't know how it works, messing with it, however noble our motives, may very well do more harm than good.
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#2743 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 12:59

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-July-29, 12:00, said:

Is the climate changing? Certainly. How could it not?

There are so many, many variables. Is human action one (or more) of them? Certainly. How could it not be?

Is the current trend in climate change a looming catastrophe? Maybe. Hard to know, since our models seem to all be flawed in some way or other. I'd say there are other things one might call "looming catastrophes" that are, or should be, of more concern. Some of those are being ignored completely. See the recent thread on the tectonic situation in the American Northwest, for example.

Are some people trying to use the presumed "looming catastrophe" in climate change for their own gain? There sure are. On both sides, I suspect.

Should we ignore those people completely? Well, no, but we should take everything they say with a grain of salt. I don't trust people whose agenda seems to be fear-mongering for their own benefit. I don't trust people who say "don't worry, be happy, stick your head in the sand" either.

What should we do? Perhaps deal with some of the problems we know how to handle, while continuing to try to figure out how climate change works and whether there's anything good that we can do to influence it.

Bottom line, for me, is that the planet is a very big, very complex machine, and since we don't know how it works, messing with it, however noble our motives, may very well do more harm than good.


The 4.5 billion year history of the earth includes only about 100+ years of industrialization and fossil fuel use - I would say that fossil fuel use is more in line with "messing with earth" than reducing the use of fossil fuels.
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#2744 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 13:31

And 100 years of nuclear fission...(notwithstanding radioactive decay in the core)

The key is our wise use of resources and the stewardship of what remains. Can we switch over to alternate sources of energy? Not quickly but how quickly is necessary? Alarmists say immediately, no matter what the cost (and it is BIG). The science seems to be sufficiently ambiguous to indicate that time is on our side. Since we have been using fossil fuels for several hundred, and the effects are mitigated by the benefits, we may well be best served by advancing prudently into the future and not rushing headlong into disaster.

Rather than the UNFCCC starting with the proposition that man is responsible for CAGW and then throwing money at trying to prove it, (could have been sulfate aerosols had the global temps been cooling at the time...) perhaps a Framework Convention on energy equity would have been more appropriate? Dealing with what we do have is the problem. Much more so than any projected rise of a few tenths of a degree C over the next century.
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#2745 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 14:36

View Posty66, on 2015-July-22, 11:17, said:

What does it mean that this thread has more replies than the climate change thread but fewer views?


Means that this thread can be hijacked by that other one but will still be more entertaining
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#2746 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 15:00

As described in the sub-heading of this thread, it is NOT about GW. IIRC It was started after the 2nd or 3rd GW thread was derailed so that non-consensus viewpoints would stop being presented.
The sub-heading may have been an attempt to forestall derailing if GW was mentioned in passing... ROFL

As we can see, both are going strong thanks to more active moderation.
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#2747 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-July-29, 17:23

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2015-July-29, 13:31, said:

And 100 years of nuclear fission...(notwithstanding radioactive decay in the core)

Ever heard of Oklo? It's in Gabon, in Africa. A couple of billion years ago, self-sustaining nuclear reactions occurred there, and ran for a couple hundred thousand years.
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#2748 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 05:14

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-July-29, 17:23, said:

Ever heard of Oklo? It's in Gabon, in Africa. A couple of billion years ago, self-sustaining nuclear reactions occurred there, and ran for a couple hundred thousand years.

Indeed I have. Not so sure that SUV's were involved in that one, however, and fossil fuels weren't even in process then and since man was not even a gleam in anyone's eye, the anthropogenic nature of that energy source was nil. ;)
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#2749 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 05:28

Double snip
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#2750 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 05:30

snip
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#2751 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 06:51

There has been a recent sighting of the rare double snip. Keep a sharp eye out..no, put that back in...that's gross!
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#2752 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 08:37

The Official BBO Hijacked Thread Thread has been hijacked!

We need to herd the climate change posts back into the climate change threads before the infection kills this thread. It may already be too late! But then I am sure that there are hijack deniers out there who will argue that a few posts about climate change in this thread are not man-made but naturally occurring phenomena and not indicative of a long-term path to destruction.



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#2753 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 09:45

More of a low jack... :huh:

But you would have to ask y66 about that, as he was the first to mention the dreaded subject that shall not be discussed for fear of sacrilege or heresy. :P
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#2754 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 10:46

View PostArtK78, on 2015-July-30, 08:37, said:

The Official BBO Hijacked Thread Thread has been hijacked!

We need to herd the climate change posts back into the climate change threads before the infection kills this thread. It may already be too late! But then I am sure that there are hijack deniers out there who will argue that a few posts about climate change in this thread are not man-made but naturally occurring phenomena and not indicative of a long-term path to destruction.


Quote

The Official BBO Hijacked Thread Thread has been hijacked!

This is an oxymoron.


Quote

deniers


This is the same thing sans oxy.
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#2755 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 11:05

Really, REALLY low jacked.
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#2756 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 14:40

View PostArtK78, on 2015-July-30, 08:37, said:

The Official BBO Hijacked Thread Thread has been hijacked!

We need to herd the climate change posts back into the climate change threads before the infection kills this thread. It may already be too late!



Don't worry, Nobody/nothing is able to kill tthis thread . Avocado-plantations in Nova Scotia are more likely than this.
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#2757 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 16:02

It's not bacon but......... back (baby back ribs) on topic.

Off tomorrow for 4 days of Bridge at a Regional. Our no-tell motel has a swimming pool and a kitchenette and I'm BBQing enough baby back ribs to feed our team of 4 for at least 2 days. And the hospitality sweet features $1 beer.

I'm into avocado's too. Stayed with my South African bridge partner for a couple of months and he had an avocado tree and they were the size of footballs (either kind). Rained down on the tin roof of his garage, BAM in the middle of the night and his dogs got at them often. Farting/belching machines for a week.
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#2758 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 16:46

View PostAl_U_Card, on 2015-July-30, 05:14, said:

Indeed I have. Not so sure that SUV's were involved in that one, however, and fossil fuels weren't even in process then and since man was not even a gleam in anyone's eye, the anthropogenic nature of that energy source was nil. ;)

My point was that nuclear fission has been around a lot longer than a hundred years.
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#2759 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 16:56

What a peaceful people here in thread. Nobody invaded (till now) the CC-thread and started there a new discussion about the influence of the global bacon grilling on CO2 emissions-:rolleyes:
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#2760 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2015-July-30, 18:29

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-July-30, 16:46, said:

My point was that nuclear fission has been around a lot longer than a hundred years.

And my point was that the human generated variety is only about 100 yrs old.
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