BBO Discussion Forums: Something of note. - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Something of note. Talking about penalty cards.

#1 User is offline   keylime 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: FD TEAM
  • Posts: 2,735
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN
  • Interests:Motorsports, cricket, disc golf, and of course - bridge. :-)

  Posted 2004-June-19, 15:38

I want to give you an example:

Let's say that South is declarer at 2♦. RHO leads out of turn AND it's a major penalty card (i.e. a honor). What are the options to declarer at the lead out of turn, AND when LHO/RHO gets in again?

There's a reason why I'm asking. ;)
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
0

#2 User is offline   JRG 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 346
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 2004-June-19, 16:07

You did not provide enough information.

Presumably the card led was faced (since you refer to it being a major penalty card - an honour). However, you did not indicate whether it was an opening lead out of turn or a subsequent lead out of turn. If it was a subsequent lead, was it declarer or dummy's turn to lead or the other opponent's?

The issue may be complicated later in the hand because the card my be an exposed card versus a lead-out-of-turn.

I believe what penalties, if any, apply subsequently to the offender or his partner depends on declarer's choice of options (if it was a lead out of turn).

Law 56 says: "When declarer requires a defender to retract his faced lead out of turn, the card illegally led becomes a major penalty card, and Law 50D applies." Not that the card is a major penalty card regardless of its rank (honour or otherwise).

Law 50D basically says that the offender must play the major penalty card at his first legal opportunity (e.g. following suit, discarding, or leading). If his partner gets the lead before the major penalty card has been played, then he may not lead until declarer has chosen one of his options. If he demands or forbids the lead of the suit of the penalty card, offender picks it up and it is no longer a penalty card (NB. the prohibiition remains in effect until offender's partner has lost the lead -- if you forbid the lead, he cannot lead a winner in another suit and then switch to the suit of the (former) penalty card). If declarer elects not to forbid or demand the lead of the suit of the penalty card, the penalty card remains a penalty card.

You can look the Laws up on the Internet.
JRG
0

#3 User is offline   keylime 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: FD TEAM
  • Posts: 2,735
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN
  • Interests:Motorsports, cricket, disc golf, and of course - bridge. :-)

  Posted 2004-June-19, 17:08

FYI it was an opening lead out of turn, LHO had not made a face down lead at the time of the penalty card being exposed.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
0

#4 User is offline   McBruce 

  • NOS (usually)
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 729
  • Joined: 2003-June-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Westminster BC Canada

Posted 2004-June-19, 20:22

Opening leads out of turn are one of the often-recurring situations that Directors are supposed to have a 'spiel' for, instead of reading it from the book. Here is mine:

1. (To the offender) "Please put the card you led on the table. Did anyone tell you it was your lead?" Further questioning if neccessary.

If an opponent told him it was his turn to lead (actively told him: facing a card after 15 seconds because neither opponent objected doesn't count), I allow him to put the card back into his hand, tell the correct leader to lead, inform the correct leader that he has two sources of UI (unauthorized information):
a: that partner holds the card he led out of turn
b: that partner chose that card as his opening lead
If the correct leader clearly uses the UI to gain an advantage I will adjust later. Play!

2. In the 99+% of cases where the offender was not misled by opponents into thinking it was his lead, I tell declarer this:
You have FIVE options, you must choose one without consultation. Here they are:
1) Put your cards down as dummy. Partner becomes the declarer and the lead out of turn is the lead--no further penalties.
2) Accept the lead out of turn and see dummy. The lead out of turn is the first card played to trick one, followed by declarer, LHO, and then dummy. No further penalties.
3) Reject the lead out of turn and let the correct leader lead whatever he wants. The card led out of turn will be a major penalty card--it must be played at the first legal opportunity, and if the opening leader regains the lead and the penalty card is still there, you can compel or forbid a [suit of lead out of turn] lead.
4) Reject the lead out of turn and compel a [suit of lead out of turn] lead. The lead out of turn will be picked up, no penalty, and the leader must lead [suit of lead out of turn]s until he runs out or he loses the lead.
5) Reject the lead out of turn and forbid a [suit of lead out of turn] lead. The lead out of turn will be picked up, no penalty, and the leader may nor lead [suit of lead out of turn] until he has nothing else left, or he loses the lead.
To summarize: you can be the dummy, play the first trick beginning with RHO, make it a penalty card, compel a [suit of lead out of turn] lead, or forbid a [suit of lead out of turn] lead.

If you think this is complicated you should see the Lawbook!
ACBL TD--got my start in 2002 directing games at BBO!
Please come back to the live game; I directed enough online during COVID for several lifetimes.
Bruce McIntyre, Yamaha WX5 Roland AE-10G AKAI EWI SOLO Greaten AP-500 Pro virtuoso-in-training
0

#5 User is offline   mikestar 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 913
  • Joined: 2003-August-18
  • Location:California, USA

Posted 2004-June-20, 20:37

McBruce,

I must offer a single correction to your otherwise excellent presentation of decalrere's options after a (faced) opening lead out of turn.

In item #4, where declarer requires the lead of the suit of the card lead out of turn, the requirement only applies to one lead. If the leader retains the lead, he is free to lead another suit on the next trick.
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users