[shyams]

Scoring: MP

North East South West
pass (1NT)* dbl (2C)**
dbl* (pass) 3NT all pass

*1NT is 11-14 balanced;
** 2C is 'to play' (escape from dbl)
* Partner's dbl was penalty
Opening lead H9

---

1. Your choice of line of play? I think there are many choices ... sadly at the table, I found one that resulted in -1.
2. Do you agree with the 3NT or would you have preferred to defend 2Cx?

[kenrexford]

I would have started by winning the heart in hand.

Trick two is a spade to the Ace.

Trick three is a spade toward the Jack.

This line gives me three spade tricks, three hearts tricks, and two diamonds, for starters, so long as RHO has the spade King, a fairly good bet, and either RHO pops the King or has Kxx.

However, unless RHO has Kx, he should duck to give me a possible problem.

I can get that far, but I need to know now whether RHO wins the second spade (because he has Kx) or ducks. If he wins, what is returned?

Oh, and I would have presuambly fielded the diamond lead against 2♣X.

[shyams]

kenrexford, on Aug 20 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

However, unless RHO has Kx, he should duck to give me a possible problem.

I can get that far, but I need to know now whether RHO wins the second spade (because he has Kx) or ducks. If he wins, what is returned?

Well I am sure RHO would duck the second spade and your J wins.

[bid_em_up]

shyams, on Aug 20 2009, 10:37 AM, said:

2. Do you agree with the 3NT or would you have preferred to defend 2Cx?

This one is easy to answer. I do not agree with the 3N bid. Partner hammered 2C and we have no clue what his hand actually is. We have an extremely good hand for defending 2C x'd and should be licking our chops at the huge penalty we are about to extract from the opponents. So, given the auction, I would pass and defend.

However, I will assume you have seen partner's penalty doubles before, as this looks nothing like what I would expect to find in partner's hand. Now that we can see dummy, it is certainly clear we'd rather be in 3N as it is unlikely that we are beating 2C by 4 tricks, which is what it would take for us to outscore 3N (assuming we can make it, and I think we can...).

[vuroth]

This is the kind of hand that generally have no idea how to assess.

I think I win in hand and immediately plop down the 6♣. RHO, I think, has to play an honour on this, and I'd like to know what it is.

It looks like I'm guaranteed 3 ♦ tricks if I chose to go that way, though I'll need both my entries to dummy to establish the 9♦. So when I get around to spades, leading the jack will do. If it holds, and I still have control, low to the queen, hoping to use the ace if there's a 3/3 split to cash the 13th spade.

Now if 2♣ didn't show a real suit, then I think I've got problems. (EDIT: In this case, J♠ covering, if it holds low to the queen. I'll aim for 3♠, 3♥, 3♦, and let opponents break clubs if possible.)

As for the bidding, I think I prefer to defend. This kind of looks like a problem auction for weak 1NT to me.

V

[kenrexford]

shyams, on Aug 20 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 20 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

However, unless RHO has Kx, he should duck to give me a possible problem.

I can get that far, but I need to know now whether RHO wins the second spade (because he has Kx) or ducks.  If he wins, what is returned?

Well I am sure RHO would duck the second spade and your J wins.

So, I now have two spades in the bag. I would now play a diamond toward the 10. What happens to that?

[shyams]

Consolidated reply:

Let me apologise for the 'to-and-fro' nature of the deal. I will try and provide some points here that should help you all decide the next line / best line of play. I tried some of the things suggested and the response at the table is listed -- e.g. RHO did actually duck the 2nd spade holding the SK

kenrexford's line of play:
H9 - H6 - H2 - HK
S4 - S3 - SA - S6
S2 - S8 - SJ - S9
D5 - D6 - DT - DJ
H5 - ??? - H4 - ???
Now if you win in dummy and repeat the finesse in diamonds, it will win. But you still have to decide how to play the other suits for 9th trick.

vuroth's line of play:
If you plop down the C6, LHO wins with the C9 as RHO ducks. They continue attacking hearts... And in response to your question, the 2C did mean the C suit.

[nigel_k]

I would have passed the double though if my partner has a penalty double at this vulnerability then probably West has psyched and will run. I would not double with North though.

In the play, we need to start by thinking about what West has for his 2♣ bid. There are three possibilities:

1) He has bid 2♣ to play with a four card suit, probably with a top honour
2) 2♣ is a psyche and he is planning to redouble, maybe with 3442 shape or just a five card diamond suit.
3) He has five clubs and East has an offshape three suited NT opener with stiff ace of clubs. It would be a poor 11 but people do that sometimes.

Know the opponents tendencies would be helpful because one of them has done something a bit strange no matter what. You need to know about their runout mechanisms after 1NT-X and also leads because you want to know who has the fourth heart. Probably RHO has it if they lead seconds.

I can't see a way to combine all the chances but I think scenario 2 seems most likely so I win the heart in dummy and play a spade to the jack then a small spade from both hands. Win the heart return. Now I have to choose between playing for 3-3 spades plus setting up a club, or going for an extra trick in diamonds. I'll probably do the former but would need to be at the table to know for sure.

[bid_em_up]

nigel_k, on Aug 20 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

2) 2♣ is a psyche and he is planning to redouble, maybe with 3442 shape or just a five card diamond suit.
.....
but I think scenario 2 seems most likely

lol.

You must play vs. some tough beginners. Any beginner/intermediate that I know of would not be capable of making this bid (at least not intentionally), nor would they be capable of making this assumption to try to make the hand. So how about assuming something a little more "normal" and working from there?

[nigel_k]

bid_em_up, on Aug 20 2009, 04:20 PM, said:

nigel_k, on Aug 20 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

2) 2♣ is a psyche and he is planning to redouble, maybe with 3442 shape or just a five card diamond suit.
.....
but I think scenario 2 seems most likely

lol. You must play vs. some tough beginners.

Even if you attach more weight to the choice of forum for posting the problem than I do, opponents needn't be beginners. Anyway, we know one of them is doing something strange and bidding a short suit followed by redouble is hardly rocket science. I'm also not sure there is a better line even if you assume West has bid 2♣ on K10xx.

[vuroth]

shyams, on Aug 20 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

vuroth's line of play:
If you plop down the C6, LHO wins with the C9 as RHO ducks. They continue attacking hearts...  And in response to your question, the 2C did mean the C suit.

I've spent far too much time on this hand, and I'm no nearer to figuring it out.

If RHO has 4+♥s, I'm already down. So let's simplify things.

K♥, Q♥. Low to the J♠. If he wins, I have a ♠ entry for the upcoming marked ♦ finesse. If he ducks, low to T♦. If he wins and returns a ♦, I take my 3♦ tricks and put him in in ♣s, making him lead to my AQ♠. If he ducks the T♦, cashing the AK♦ will either promote my 9♦, or the 9♦ will again endplay him in ♠s.

In retrospect, Q♥ at T1 and low club at T2 looks better, but this hand just has too many permutations for me to work out.

EDIT: Actually, assuming the 9♥ shows a doubleton is the easiest way to go, as it nails down everyone's distributions at trick 1. Really depends on carding and level of opponents, though.

[Quantumcat]

west can have 3 points at the most - probably the king of clubs, because he can only have 4 cards, and he might have chosen the four card suit that he had an honour in, to run to (unless he is 4333 in which case he'd probably pass and hope his p redoubles with a 5 card suit).

So, win in hand, ♠A and low to the jack. Did the king pop? No, East has at least three spades, with five hearts and two clubs. He has three or two diamonds. Try the ♦A. Do we see the jack? No, he has three diamonds. Play the king and another. Win heart return in hand, cash diamond. Then play a little spade from both hands (East has three spades only) and win ♥Q and cash spade for ninth trick.

If a diamond honour appeared, cash the ace, and play a spade. He can have his two spade tricks but then has to play clubs or hearts. If he plays a low club, and West wins, win what he returns and play a low club (we know he has ace doubleton). Win again and the ♣Q is your ninth trick. If he cashes the ace first you have a club trick without any work. If he plays a heart you just play clubs yourself.

If the king popped at trick three, play a low diamond to the ten, and finesse the 9 when you win a heart in dummy (after cashing the spade of course). This is because he might have four diamonds, and you can't force out the queen by just playing AK small. If you play the ace first, you can't finesse anymore. He can have four with a 2542 shape.

Absolutely 100% on the bidding!

[bid_em_up]

Quantumcat, on Aug 20 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

If the king popped at trick three, play a low diamond to the ten, and finesse the 9 when you win a heart in dummy (after cashing the spade of course). This is because he might have four diamonds, and you can't force out the queen by just playing AK small. If you play the ace first, you can't finesse anymore. He can have four with a 2542 shape.

Absolutely 100% on the bidding!

Very nice.

Except....if the K popped at trick 3, you now have 3 spades 2 diamonds 3 hearts and a club by force (rho must hold the club A). So there is no need to mess with the diamonds.

[vuroth]

bid_em_up, on Aug 20 2009, 05:45 PM, said:

Quantumcat, on Aug 20 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

If the king popped at trick three, play a low diamond to the ten, and finesse the 9 when you win a heart in dummy (after cashing the spade of course). This is because he might have four diamonds, and you can't force out the queen by just playing AK small. If you play the ace first, you can't finesse anymore. He can have four with a 2542 shape.

Absolutely 100% on the bidding!

Very nice.

Except....if the K popped at trick 3, you now have 3 spades 2 diamonds 3 hearts and a club by force (rho must hold the club A). So there is no need to mess with the diamonds.

Not really. Your only entry to dummy is the Q♥, which will promote someone's ♥s. If you lead ♣s from your hand, you don't have a guaranteed ♣ trick.

EDIT: Should also mention that, down Quantumcat's line, you need to cash the J♠ before leading up to the T♦, lest you block spades. Of course, if ♠s are 3/3, you'll survive either way.

[vuroth]

Ugh I was very turned around on this hand. At first, I had ♣s possibly 5-1, and ♥s 2-4.

These problems are much simpler if you dwell in the realm of the possible.

[Winstonm]

If the clubs honors are divided and the clubs are 5-3, it appears all is lost by the simple expedient of the defense ducking a round of clubs. Then they can catch 4 more club tricks next time in.

I think the best line is to win the heart in dummy, spade to the J, then low diamond to the 10. Best defense is low club back ducked all around. Now declarer has to guess how to play the diamonds.

If it turns out West had Qxx of diamonds and ducked and RHO started with AKxx of clubs, find a new game because this one is too tough.

[Quantumcat]

If you play a low diamond to the ten, you miss the opportunity to get three spade tricks when East started with three because you have to use the ♥Q to finesse the diamond.

Also note that the defence has only six clubs so they can't be 5-3 :-)

Oh, and West won't have Qxx of diamonds with East having AKxx of clubs - that would mean that West bid a natural 2♣ holding a small doubleton. If you meant East might have the doubleton AK, West would have passed holding

♠xxxx
♥xx
♦Qxx
♣xxxx

hoping his partner has a five card suit and will redouble.

[vuroth]

Winstonm, on Aug 20 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

If the clubs honors are divided and the clubs are 5-3, it appears all is lost by the simple expedient of the defense ducking a round of clubs. Then they can catch 4 more club tricks next time in.

So clubs are 5433 around the table? Now you're making the same kind of mistake I was making earlier!

[kenrexford]

shyams, on Aug 20 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Consolidated reply:

Let me apologise for the 'to-and-fro' nature of the deal. I will try and provide some points here that should help you all decide the next line / best line of play. I tried some of the things suggested and the response at the table is listed -- e.g. RHO did actually duck the 2nd spade holding the SK

kenrexford's line of play:
H9 - H6 - H2 - HK
S4 - S3 - SA - S6
S2 - S8 - SJ - S9
D5 - D6 - DT - DJ
H5 - ??? - H4 - ???
Now if you win in dummy and repeat the finesse in diamonds, it will win. But you still have to decide how to play the other suits for 9th trick.

When the heart comes back, I win in dummy and play a club toward the QJ. RHO either pops now or later. If he pops now, I suspect another heart is played. So, I then establish the club and play diamonds for 3-3.

If RHO has five hearts, such is life.

[Winstonm]

I put the QJx in the same suit as the 10x - D'oh!!