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Overcall?

#1 User is offline   nick_s 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 17:52

You are in 2nd seat. Red vs White. Mps

♠ KQ4
♥ KJ865
♦ 9642
♣ 6

(1♦) ?
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 17:54

nick_s, on Aug 10 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

You are in 2nd seat. Red vs White. Mps

♠ KQ4
♥ KJ865
♦ 9642
♣ 6

(1♦) ?

nonexpert response:

I would pass here for two reasons, we are at unfav vul and I have 4d.
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#3 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 17:55

1H is beyond obvious. You have a fine suit and a fine hand. You do not need an opening hand to overcall at the 1 level.
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#4 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 18:02

Agree with the auto 1♥.
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 18:12

Totally automatic 1H overcall.
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#6 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 18:44

mike777, on Aug 10 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

I would pass here for two reasons, we are at unfav vul and I have 4d.

The four diamonds are not a liability, in fact they increase the chance that partner will be short in diamonds and/or have something in hearts.

I would bid though I certainly wouldn't say I have a fine suit or a fine hand, unless by 'fine' you mean barely adequate.
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#7 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 19:01

nigel_k, on Aug 10 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 10 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

I would pass here for two reasons, we are at unfav vul  and I have 4d.

The four diamonds are not a liability, in fact they increase the chance that partner will be short in diamonds and/or have something in hearts.

AHhhhhhhhh no they don't! Stop spreading this myth!
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#8 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 19:12

Jlall, on Aug 11 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

1H is beyond obvious. You have a fine suit and a fine hand. You do not need an opening hand to overcall at the 1 level.
Thank you. If I had faced this at a table, I'd pass :)
A question: If the original condition was Red vs White @ IMPs instead of @MPs, would you still have overcalled 1H?
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#9 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 19:13

Well, taking into account the 4 diamonds, and the red white situation, and the fact that 1♥ over 1♦ doesn't preempt them in the slightest, I think I still bid.

Personally I don't think this hand has really anything in the tank though - change the ♠Q for the J and I'm probably not bothering.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#10 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 19:46

Jlall, on Aug 10 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

nigel_k, on Aug 10 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 10 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

I would pass here for two reasons, we are at unfav vul  and I have 4d.

The four diamonds are not a liability, in fact they increase the chance that partner will be short in diamonds and/or have something in hearts.

AHhhhhhhhh no they don't! Stop spreading this myth!

It's not a myth.

Compared to the same hand with minors reversed, he is slightly more likely to have length and honours in hearts and a lot more likely to have diamond shortage. Anyone with a simulator can verify this but I already know the answer so don't need to. When they play diamonds this makes the difference between us overruffing them and them overruffing us.

My main point was not that the diamonds are a huge asset, just that they are a small positive rather than a reason not to bid as was originally suggested.
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#11 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 21:19

1♥. Not deterred by my diamond length.

Passing is losing bridge.
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#12 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 21:31

nigel_k, on Aug 10 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

It's not a myth.

Compared to the same hand with minors reversed, he is slightly more likely to have length and honours in hearts

This is not true. The reason it is good to bid with length in their suit is your second point, that partner will be overruffing LHO.

It is NOT more likely that partner has longer hearts than if our minors were reversed. Awm and/or Han have already done this simulation to disprove this theory before, wish I knew how to find the thread!
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#13 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 21:36

Jlall, on Aug 10 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

1H is beyond obvious. You have a fine suit and a fine hand. You do not need an opening hand to overcall at the 1 level.

Agree completely..9 HCP none of which are unprotected, a decent 5 card suit that is higher than the one they opened.
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#14 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-August-10, 23:30

Jlall, on Aug 10 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

nigel_k, on Aug 10 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

It's not a myth.

Compared to the same hand with minors reversed, he is slightly more likely to have length and honours in hearts

This is not true. The reason it is good to bid with length in their suit is your second point, that partner will be overruffing LHO.

It is NOT more likely that partner has longer hearts than if our minors were reversed. Awm and/or Han have already done this simulation to disprove this theory before, wish I knew how to find the thread!


Are you looking for this thread?
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#15 User is offline   ochinko 

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Posted 2009-August-11, 05:11

Jlall, on Aug 11 2009, 06:31 AM, said:

The reason it is good to bid with length in their suit is your second point, that partner will be overruffing LHO.

I agree. So liking both my red suits as well as the blacks 1♥ seems obvious.
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#16 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2009-August-11, 06:02

Sure looks adequate to me for 1H any type of scoring.
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#17 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-August-11, 07:41

655321, on Aug 11 2009, 12:30 AM, said:

Jlall, on Aug 10 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

nigel_k, on Aug 10 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

It's not a myth.

Compared to the same hand with minors reversed, he is slightly more likely to have length and honours in hearts

This is not true. The reason it is good to bid with length in their suit is your second point, that partner will be overruffing LHO.

It is NOT more likely that partner has longer hearts than if our minors were reversed. Awm and/or Han have already done this simulation to disprove this theory before, wish I knew how to find the thread!


Are you looking for this thread?

You the man.
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#18 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-11, 07:46

1♥

sorry Mike but 4 trashy diamonds just means we don't have to worry about being overruffed if we have a ♥ fit
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#19 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-August-11, 12:58

Easy 1♥. You're style is too sound if you have to pass this - you're giving your opps a free ride far too often.
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Harald
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