[Fouad]

To my surprise I see posts and topics against the TD system at BBo and directing tourneys and the way of choosing the TDs...well I think tourneys at BBO is the most attracting thing and we can see that from the number of players in the tourneys at any time ..so for sure BBO succeeded in this as well as its TDs !....
Saying that or the acuse of many or some or few or all the directors that they are novice or they cannot or they do not know the rules and posting this in topics and discusions realy not fair and annoying ....... I played several and many different tourneys on BBo ..and did not meet any novice TD till now ..ALL are doing there work in a very nice way ....and the restrictions they post on their tourneys all of them have the rights and not out of rules and no one of them invented rules

IN this topic i ll answer 2 complains that most of the posts acuse some of the TDs of not knowing the rules

1- TDs ban phsychic or limit them ( many comments that they cannot limit or ban )and how the TD do this and he or she do not know the rules

2- TDs makes a tourney and allow or dissallow certain systems ( also many comments ) saying they cannot do this

So here is the answer about the physchic

The regulations for the 2004 European Teams championship ( open and ladies )

in page 9 of the regulations it says :
Category 3 :
All other WBF and tournaments and championships and stages of such events not covered by category 1 and 2
The use of HUM systems and brown sticker convention is prohibted
In EBL pairs championships and matches of fewer than 16 boards in EBL team play , psychic conventional bids are prohibted

u can find this in details at http://www.ecatsbridge.com/Documents/files...and%20Women.pdf



Now about TDs hosting tourneys of only certain systems

http://www.worldbridge.org/tourn/Athens.00...Athens_info.htm

"world indvidual bridge championship" 5th Generali Masters - Athens april 2000

Systems

All participants must play the same bidding system, a natural system with the use of only a few conventions. The convention card and supplementary sheet describing the system to be used are available in PDF format.


These are my answers to anyone who keeps complaining about BBO Tds and that they invent rules and restrictions ........ So pls let the good people continue their work ...till now they all the TDs are doing a wonderful work and no one of them invented new rules

I know that with this post ... fire will open upon me ...but np

Thx To all BBO TDs .....I Love you all great people

Fo

[hrothgar]

>In EBL pairs championships and matches of fewer than 16 boards in EBL team
>play , psychic conventional bids are prohibted

The regulation in question contains a VERY important word: "Conventional".
The Laws of Bridge explictly allow for psyches, however, they also grant sponsoring organizations the right to regulate conventions. In this case, the European authorities are using the right to regulate conventions to prohibit a specific type of psyches.

Lets compare this to a blanket prohibition to making psyches on Wednesdays and Fridays. Alternatively, lets look at the prohibition on psyches in first/second seat that you include in your own tournaments. These two examples are in direct violation of the laws of bridge.

[the hog]

Fouad,
Richard is correct - you have not read the rules correctly or understood them. This is talking about psyching conventional bids, not about psyching per se. Incidentally what this has to do with a HUM or Brownsticker convention is beyond me.

Similarly to compare what happens in the Generali - an individual tournament - to what happens in a pairs event is not correct.

[Fouad]

dear the_hog
I did not say that psychic is not allowed ... what i wanted to say is there are international organizations that made restrictions for it and banned it in other situations as the examples above ..... about the generali tournment whom they forced players to play one system ...yes it is indvidual tourney and yet we have many ind. tourneys at BBO
now we return to conventional bids and what do they mean.. they are bids like 2cl opening and 1 cl precision or 2 diamond flannery ... they banned psychic with these bids in tourneys less than 16 board ...didn't they ?


And for dear hrothagar thx for being a perfect example for polite player who knows the laws


Fo

[luis]

Fouad, on May 20 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

dear the_hog
I did not say that psychic is not allowed ... what i wanted to say is there are international organizations that made restrictions for it and banned it in other situations as the examples above ..... about the generali tournment whom they forced players to play one system ...yes it is indvidual tourney and yet we have many ind. tourneys at BBO
now we return to conventional bids and what do they mean.. they are bids like 2cl opening and 1 cl precision or 2 diamond flannery ... they banned psychic with these bids in tourneys less than 16 board ...didn't they ?


And for dear hrothagar thx for being a perfect example for polite player who knows the laws


Fo

You are wrong,

There're NO International Organizations that made restrictions or banned psyches as long as they are not conventional bids.
TDs have no rights to ban psyches.
It's a pity that you post such a comment because it may confuse TDs to believe that they can ban psyches in their tournaments or even worst encourage TDs to do such a thing.

There're a zillion of pseud-bridge tournaments with restrictions I think they are intended to protect the newbies but the real effect is that newbies will never learn. It's like flag football, if you only play flag football chances are that you will get really hurt in your first real match.

I still think that certified TDs, real bridge TDs should be noted in BBO in some way so you can know before enetering a tournament if it is directed by a real TD or an amateur. A checkbox should also be added to highlight tournaments with unusual restrictions like systems banned, obligation to play a system, restrictions over psyches etc. In this way "normal" tournaments where you are allowed to play "normal" bridge without unusual restrictions will be easy to spot and you don't need to read the whole rules of contest to determine if the tournament has restrictions.

Luis

[Gweny]

Dear Luis,

And how do YOU classify "real" tds. I direct on average 10-15 tournaments per week for last 3.5 years. Do this mean I am "real" td? And conversely do this mean I am not "real" td since I cannot quote chapter and verse of you rules?

Do some person taking some test who never direct 1 time qualify as "real" td since he pass this test?

Do some person with no internet experience qualify as "real" td for BBO?

How exactly do you measure this definition of "real"?

I understand need for certify tds for certain types of tournaments. ie ACBL, WBF, etc. To run this type of tournament it makes perfect sense to require TD to meet certain standards of familiarity to governing body rules.

However, to run some non sanction tournament here in BBO I like to know what exactly is you point?

Reason we such very healthy robust tournament schedule is because good heart people volunteer they time to provide ENTERTAINMENT for others. Skill levels of this TD run full gambit from rank novice to World Class star players. Do this change character of tournaments they direct?

Of course!

Is all people interest in playing tournament where one must keep 25 kg rule book beside computer?

Of course not!

Where you and many other "purists" is missing point is we is all not in agreement with importance you attach to this point. Some people will never read all this rules you constantly quote or refer to but do this mean they is less in love with bridge than you? I think no - they simply do not care since this rules, while underlying everything bridge, is not why they play this wonderful game.

Bridge is many things to many people. You need to accept not all people hold same passion for this set of rules as you do.

In no way do I deny importance of continuing education of TDs. Learning will only improve quality and depth of our td community. I invite you, and other rule afficinados to come and give BBO TDs clinics on this topics. I make same offer yesterday but to date I do not see one of you offer to donate little bit of you time to help improve knowledge base of volunteers of TD community who give so much to players of BBO.

[Mirjam_3]

dear Gweny, i understand their point since not all td's are good and as player i really think some td's sd and CAN be better (and i can tell you a few stories there) but i certainly agree w you that reading rules doesnt help to survive as td 100%.. you need more to be good in the reality of hosting..and than i dont mean bridge skills but things like experience, the guts to take a decision, the ability to get along with different types... well i am not going to write here the manual: 'How do i become a good td at BBO'
The fact that there are questions about the quality of the td's here might mean some or most td's are not really that good and i think it is better not to fight about it but to talk about things we all can agree about...

[spwdo]

hi

gonna tell u one thing bout this and this is last i ever will.

hard to consult a 25kg book when u are in a limit timespot to do so, easy to qoute some bookrules when u have time to look them up, just as easy as one has time to find the way to play an unmakeble 3nt .

To give u an example, really really good players had a chance to play/comment/explain a 3nt after a prepared deals tourney.They found it , took about 17 minutes with 4 hands to look at. NOT ONE BUT ALL FOUR HANDS.

ANOTHER THING, seen here and play in tourneys of CERTIFIED DIRECTORS. nO GARANTEE IM AFRAID . played in a tourney.partner and me waited for 14 minutes because one o was offline, we didnt get an A+ , we didnt got a sub(td was afraid they scream at td again) still have the full log of if where the CERTIFIED TD said after ."ok im certified and real live events gives me no problems but onlne i cant do anything right". I was when hosting INPERFECT , yet i tried to be.I took every avaible test online/offline, i study 1.5 hours a week on rules NOT TO QOUTE BUT( man , thats easy when u got time ), BUT TO KNOW THEM/UNDERSTAND THEM/BE ABLE TO APPLY THEM. i think i saw a lot of things pass the revue, in the 500 tourneys i hosted in my name and the even more i helped others.

yet we dont seem to please some here, btw THESE CHARACTERS HARDLY EVER PLAY A TOURNEY,if u want i name names , ok and i give dates with it.BECAUSE i kept track of not only the spychic bids in my tourneys.

u make a lot of issues/critisise/hurt ppl that are donating time for your pleasure.Try them out, just the same i gave everybody a chance.If u dont like them, pffffffff there are a zillion more tourneys. I for one cant play ACBL events where i am not allowed to open bidding with hands where i think i must open bidding with, my solution. : avoid those tourneys.

What i dont get in all of this. ALL ACCEPT STUPID RULES A ORGANISSATION MAKES YET WE ARE NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT A TD ON BBO WHO MAKES HIS OWN RULES, SO WHEN VATICAN CITY(7 registerd bridge players) SAYS "WE DONT OPEN BIDDING IN FIRST SEAT WITH 30 HCP BECAUSE OPPS MAY SUFFER FROM THE INJUST DIVIDING OF HCP" U ALL AGREE.

pfff i see in other replies u quote other sports.Well , hear hear i was proffessional in 2 sports before i coud write the word bridge.

SOME FOOTBALLLOVERS AMOUNG US WILL REMEMBER "SOMEONE`S HAND OF GOD" WICH GAVE A NATION THE WORLDCUP FOOTBALL/SOCCER.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG, screamed the whole world , about this cocaine addict(not proven at that time) yet a whole nation was celebrating and nothing was done, the whole world was swindled it seems and the most popular sport federation did nothing about this injustice seen by 750.000000 ppl.

U NEED TO REALISE ONE THING , WHEN U ARE PLAYING A TOURNEY, THERE IS A DIRECTOR, AND THAT DIRECTOR IS ALWAYS ALWAYS RIGHT (EVEN WHEN WRONG).if u got some common sense u try to improve his/her way of thinking so he can laern, dont hurt ppl donating their time for the pleasure of others .
but why am i trying to change minds when in every sport all arbitrator are the devils and the gamers without fault.
help them, just help them, improve their knowledge of the game and thank them once in a while for their stupidity to even try this unthankfull job, well ist not a job.
Its "stank voor dank".

Marc

P.s last thing i ever wrote about TD online .
all my futher things( about beeing td/what it means/what u encounter/what others expect of you/what gratitude thier is to it) i got to say will be to tds only, yet whenever i host(if ever again) im open to positieve cristisisme and chats to improve skills/knowledge)

"de beste stuurlui staan aan wal" suits unfortunaly a lot off ppl on the forum, go figure.

"hoge bomen vangen veel wind" appies to to those tds in the frontline.
to all those tds out there,i know a lot of you, nobody says thanks to you, but here is a very BIF , FAT , THANK YOU, probaly jesus had all of u in mind when he said "forgive them , because they dont know what they are doing:)".

fouad, my dear recent friend on BBO, u know my door is open.Good luck in your effort to provide all of us with your tournaments.


greetings/love

marc

[luis]

Gweny,

It's very simple real TDs are TDs that direct events at clubs in their countries, they are usually approved by their NBOs so they are supossed to have shown a good understanding of the rules.

I certainly understand that some BBO TDs direct a lot of tournaments but that doesn't make him a TD in my opinion. There's a difference between "hosting" a tournament and directing it. Maybe for optimal results a tournament needs both a host and a director.
The host is somebody with BBO tournament experience in charge of subs, clock management, answering questions, etc.
The TD is the one that rules when there's a problem.

Luis

[hrothgar]

>u make a lot of issues/critisise/hurt people that are donating time for
>your pleasure.Try them out, just the same i gave everybody a chance.
>If u dont like them, pffffffff there are a zillion more tourneys. I for one
>cant play ACBL events where i am not allowed to open bidding with
>hands where i think i must open bidding with, my solution. :
>avoid those tourneys.

I think that you are severely miss-representing the position that Luis, Ron, myself, and several other players are taking here. I am very grateful that players are volunteering their time and energy to help serve the BBO community. I think them, and wish them all the success in the world. At the same time, I recognize the fact that one size does not fit all. The tournaments rules and regulations that many of these directors are apply do not necessarily represent a playing environment that we all find enjoyable.

I have proposed what i think is a relatively simple and innocuous solution:
Players need a mechanism by which they can rate and comment on the performance of individual tournament directors. This type of facility serves a number of different purposes:

1. Players are better able to find a director whose style matches their own requirement.
2. Directors receive direct feedback regarding their performance
3. This type of facility brings everything out in the open. Hopefully, this will help to replace back-channel gossip and innuendo with constructive comment and criticism.

I'm a realist. I recognize that any rating system is going to cause some degree of conflict and disagreement. At the same time, if director ever want to start charging for their services, they are going to require some mechanism to demonstrate their qualifications. A rating system is an excellent tool to help achieve this end.

[luis]

Spwdo,

I didn't understand a single word of what you said but it wasn't my intention to hurt you. I just suggested that there should be a way to distinguish real TDs from amateurs/hosts.

Luis

[blackbikin]

dear all,

i have read what you said and im completely lost.

from september last year, im more or less directing 1 tounrey every day. i never had an enemy list, never had problems with a player( if i did, i reported to uday or gweny and they put them in bbase jail).
yes, i had problems with my time slot, but somehow i was able to keep it .
sorry guys ,never read your brige rules and i say "alert bluffs if you know how".
if i make a mistake and player tells me i did it, i appologize, they know i did not make it on purpuse.
i try to improve myself with help of other td and uday(im not very computer literate).

but you know what...tourney was never empty..we had stars and begginers playign together and they had fun(or pretended to have it). we are having impossible hands(12..1;1o.1.1;distr) at least once a week and it was always full.
i think there is bridge and bridge.

and there is one recepie for all......have more humor..it shoud be fun for you, if you want it to be fun for players.

its only a game..its not a life...and if its a life, then that for me is sad, very sad.

sorry to interupt your academic discussion.....have fun and big kisssssssss all

barbara/blackbikini

p.s. i would love to see any of you in belly dancing, would be honour and pleasure

[blackbikin]

and sory i forgot to add, yes i do direct sometimes tounaments in my local spanish bridge club and can get a certificate im a td, but still it would never cross my mind to go and be td in word class or stars tourney
sorry, just forgetful dumb blondie

[Gweny]

Well Luis,

2 times now I invite any of you who is clearly superior to us amatuers to come and give us clinics to help us improve our skills.

So far not one of you offer to give back to us.

We is volunteers so it is not like we expect you to give us anyting however we appreciate very much if you do decide to help us improve our directing skills.

[patrobo]

blackbikin, on May 21 2004, 05:01 PM, said:

dear all, i have read what you said and i am completely lost.

I have read some very positive comments in these threads but they have become lost because of people going on the defensive. Disappointing. Would be nice to see constructive discussion by listening to what each has to say and not taking issues personally. This in turn would encourage others, not just the "brave" to put forward their comments. People giving their time to read and take part in forum is also a form of voluntary work and maybe the more taking part the better. I admire Black Bikini for her openness and honesty!!! well done). I look forward to positive debate. Patrobo

[hallway]

Maybe we amateurs would not have become quite so defensive had the purists actually taken us up on the opportunities we offered them to teach us.

I have time and again invited any who so chose to come and Direct for me. My name up front as Host - no shame to them if they make a hash of it - but good experience for me if they have all the right answers. No one has fronted !

Gweny & Marc have time and again invited any who chose to run a TD clinic to teach us. Yet the BBO_TD Club Room often sits empty ! and I have received no invitation to attend any lessons

We do the best we can and I believe we cater very well for a fair cross section of the BBO membership.

The simple fact of the matter is BBO is a GLOBAL community.

Take the BIL for example- such a tiny portion of the BBO membership and yet
It is global geographically - I have members from 65 different countries
It is global chronologically - I have a 10 yr old and a 90 year old member and every which one in between
It is global bridge wise - I have a new member who as NEVER played a single hand and also there amongst the Honorary members shine a fair sprinkling of Stars.

The whole spectrum of the membership should be catered for.

Yet when I read what some are saying it seems to me that because I have not learnt the Blue Book from cover to cover and sat an exam and been certified ( lol I am I con fess certifiable ! ) I am not therefore a fit person to be Directing the tournaments that I do for my members !>? My members do not seem to mind - but then they don't know what's in the Blue Book either !

We (well I ) would be less defensive if others would be more constructive -
TEACH US !!

[csdenmark]

A person cannot be blamed for not applying to rules he has no intensions to apply to. Tournaments and tournaments are the same word but with many different meanings and intensions/expectations - by players and by organizers as well.

In Cavendish they have a set of rules - players and TD's there must apply to those.

In Bermuda Bowl they have a set of rules - players and TD's there must apply to those.

In ACBL they have a set of rules - players and TD's there must apply to those.

In my BBO-tournies I have a set of rules - players and I must apply to those.

That is no amateurish but basic, correct and professional.

[blackbikin]

positive debate¿
why not rather sit us at table/chat/lounge-like gweny suggests, give us time and we will be there, with great pleasure. teach us, we would all like to learn more.
love
barbara

[Abadaba]

luis, on May 21 2004, 02:37 PM, said:

Spwdo,

I didn't understand a single word of what you said but it wasn't my intention to hurt you. I just suggested that there should be a way to distinguish real TDs from amateurs/hosts. 

Luis

There already is a way.

It is called pay for it! I am sure that or $8 to $10 per person per day you can go somewhere most weeks and find a game where you are guaranteed a professional TD to suit you. Of course - it might not be 24 hours a day- 7 days a week, the game might end while you still feel like playing, might not be a melting pot of wonderful people from all over the world, might involve some travel, you might not be able to smoke while playing.......

And shudder..... you still might even get some ruling you consider wrong or unfair... What is thisworld coming to?

But you will recognize them right away

[Fouad]

Csdenmark

Your words are short , effective and hit the point ..I liked what u said very much