[kenrexford]

You are NV; your opponents are V.

You have ♠Qxxx ♥x ♦Kxxx ♣AKQ2.

Partner, who is the dealer, starts grabbing toward the top part of the bidding box, obviously to make an opening bid. In your mind flashes two quick possibilities -- the typical ugly 2♥ opening OR anything else, and the latter could be interesting.

However, he pulls out a bid that actually sends you backwards in your chair.

4♣!!! (Not Namyats, Not Gerber -- just clubs).

Huh?!?!?

Anyway, when this is doubled, what now? Any follow-up thoughts for high-level decisions?

[hrothgar]

Hmmm

Partner opened 4♣ with no Club honors.
Admittedly, he is white on red, but even so I'm expecting 8-9 clubs in his hand.

This means that my club spots are absolutely useless on defense. The opponents look to be playing with a 30 point deck, and we rate to be sitting on 5 of those points.

I'm going to bid 7♣...
I doubt that we can set 6M unless we have two cashing Diamonds.
I hope that we can set 7M

7♣ doubled shouldn't be too expensive, especially if partner is sitting on the expected 1=2=1=9 or 1=2=2=8.

Worst case, I don't see 7♣ doubled going for more than 1100

[Gerben42]

The real question is, are opponents going to bid over, say, 6♣?

[whereagles]

Glad I have 4/5NT agreed to be save-suggesting bids. I might try 5NT in that case.

Without gadgets, I guess I'd bid 5♣ only. Who knows, maybe they stop in 5♥ cold for 6.

[mikeh]

I very much doubt that the opps can make 7 of anything and, more importantly, I doubt that their hands will persuade either of them to bid 7 of anything if I bid 7♣ now or later... so I see no reason to rush into 7♣... we can always bid it later if they reach slam.

I would also be just a tad concerned that partner is going to be on lead and there has to be a risk of a ruff-sluff along the way, unless we can deflect partner from a natural club lead. The ruff sluff, if it exists, may not matter, but when it does, it is likely to be critical.

So I bid 4♦ against competent opps and 5♦ (for the confusion factor) against non-experts.

[hanp]

It seems very likely that the opponents can make at least a game and that 6C will be a good save (300?) against their game. It also seems fairly unlikely that the opponents will bid over 6C, we have quite a few HCP.

So I'll go with 6C. Mikeh raises a good point about the lead direct but I am not willing to let the opponents bid 4H. A club lead might not be a disaster, partner won't have 9 at these colors.

[H_KARLUK]

kenrexford, on Apr 17 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

You are NV; your opponents are V.

You have ♠Qxxx ♥x ♦Kxxx ♣AKQ2.

Partner, who is the dealer, starts grabbing toward the top part of the bidding box, obviously to make an opening bid. In your mind flashes two quick possibilities -- the typical ugly 2♥ opening OR anything else, and the latter could be interesting.

However, he pulls out a bid that actually sends you backwards in your chair.

4♣!!! (Not Namyats, Not Gerber -- just clubs).

Huh?!?!?

Anyway, when this is doubled, what now? Any follow-up thoughts for high-level decisions?

Sys and range of 4♣ ?

[kenrexford]

H_KARLUK, on Apr 17 2009, 10:38 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Apr 17 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

You are NV; your opponents are V.

You have ♠Qxxx ♥x ♦Kxxx ♣AKQ2.

Partner, who is the dealer, starts grabbing toward the top part of the bidding box, obviously to make an opening bid.  In your mind flashes two quick possibilities -- the typical ugly 2♥ opening OR anything else, and the latter could be interesting.

However, he pulls out a bid that actually sends you backwards in your chair.

4♣!!!  (Not Namyats, Not Gerber -- just clubs).

Huh?!?!?

Anyway, when this is doubled, what now?  Any follow-up thoughts for high-level decisions?

Sys and range of 4♣ ?

No specific discussion other than "preemptive."

As a "Part II," I actually bid 5♣ at the table. 5♥ then came back to me. Now what?

[se12sam]

kenrexford, on Apr 17 2009, 04:42 PM, said:

As a "Part II," I actually bid 5♣ at the table.  5♥ then came back to me.  Now what?

I suppose your LHO bid 5♥. In that case, I'd choose to pass.
Odds favor opps having a slam. If I bid again, they might find it....

[hanp]

At matchpoints you definitely have to bid 6C now.

I think 5C is asking for it btw.

[kenrexford]

See, I kind of thought maybe I was missing the ball here, in retrospect, but maybe not as much as I thought.

I think my clubs are just too good to make sense. So, it seems like partner should have a two-suited swan hand. Maybe his swan is in hearts. Maybe he has diamonds or spades on the side. Something. This just seems too weird.

So, I thought perhaps something more should go into this evaluation as to what partner must have. I have not seen anything more than other people with gut thoughts like I had.

In practice, the hand is nonsense, because partner has the spade Ace, the heart King, and only seven clubs. Had he doubled 5♥ as a proof that his sanity was restored, we easily set it two tricks. So, the premise is nonsensical. However, I was curious as to what others would have done assuming a sane partner and whatever than sane partner is expected to have.

[mikeh]

hanp, on Apr 17 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

At matchpoints you definitely have to bid 6C now.

I think 5C is asking for it btw.

I agree... the problem with 5♣ is that it is virtually certain that the opps will bid to the 5 level, or higher. If they bid slam, well, you bid 7♣ over 6♥ and (I guess) at least consider a pass of 6♦ or ♠.

If they bid at the 5 level, and their choice of hearts is no surprise, your 6♣ establishes a forcing pass scenario for them.. they will never misguess to bid grand, since they were playing below small, but they now get to make a much nore informed decision than they could have over an immediate 6♣.

My 4♦ call is prone to some of the same criticisms I am directing at 5♣, but, I hope, in a slightly different way... for one thing, it leaves open the possibility that LHO may have a heavy 4♥ call and rho a heavy pass. Now, it may be that 7♣ is a good save against even 4♥, but I'd pay to that.

[JLOL]

hanp, on Apr 17 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

It seems very likely that the opponents can make at least a game and that 6C will be a good save (300?) against their game. It also seems fairly unlikely that the opponents will bid over 6C, we have quite a few HCP.

So I'll go with 6C. Mikeh raises a good point about the lead direct but I am not willing to let the opponents bid 4H. A club lead might not be a disaster, partner won't have 9 at these colors.

I like this thinking a lot.