[Apollo81]

All Vul, IMPs

♠9xxx
♥xxx
♦xxx
♣AJx

(1♦)-pass-(2♥*)-Dbl
(3♥)-pass-(pass)-Dbl
(pass)-???

* weak

[kfay]

Very tempting but I just bid 3♠.

[JLOL]

definitely bid this red game

[whereagles]

If you give pard the usual 4144 and 15 hcp, you'd have about 20 working points. Looks like 3 is the limit, unless pard has extras.

I would probably bid 3♠ only, though I agree this is a good way to miss a red game. Of course, you could always say if an ace is all pard needs, then he should take the push himself.

[MFA]

3♠ is enough.

[jdonn]

I would just bid 3♠. They are going to lead hearts and if partner has to ruff the third round in our 4-4 fit then our bad trumps will make things hard.

[mtvesuvius]

Only 3... Partner can still bid it with extreme extras. I'm picturing AKJx J KJxx Kxxx or something...

[TylerE]

At these colors, my sick side tells me to pass... Where are their tricks coming from exactly? Looks to me like we have about 2♣ tricks, 3 on a good day, 2 spades, and a diamond trick, maybe 2.

[rbforster]

Here I was thinking that either red game seemed hopeless (4♥/5♦)... 4♠ for me.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Apr 8 2009, 03:50 PM, said:

I would just bid 3♠. They are going to lead hearts and if partner has to ruff the third round in our 4-4 fit then our bad trumps will make things hard.

Third round? How many hearts do you think partner has?

Bear in mind that partner has forced us to bid even though we passed over 1D, and passed again over 3H. I was going to bid game, but then I started constructing hands for partner.

The problem is our 3-card diamond holding, which is also partner's likely length. Something sexy like

AKxx
x
Axx
KQxxx

is not enough unless opener is exactly 3343 (or 3244)

I think we'll often have 10 tricks, it's just they'll have 4 first.

Of course, now I've thought for ages before bidding 3S, partner can't raise unless he has an absolute moose.

[mikeh]

I bid the cowardly 3♠... I really don't like our shape, and this could be really ugly if opener has 4 reasonable spades. The imp odds that favour aggressive vulnerable game bidding are based on the assumption that we are not going for a number when we are wrong. This is precisely the kind of situation in which opener can successfully double when we are wrong.. his partner's hand is relatively well-defined, and he can take a shot quite often.

I am not going conservative on the basis that this WILL happen: my conservatism is based on my horrible trump and sterile shape.. and I only refer to the possibility of a number to say that I would need to feel that the game was close to 50% before bidding it, and I don't (quite... it is close) think it is.

Since I am naturally conservative, I wouldn't have tanked as long as Frances, so my partner may raise me anyway, when he has a true Moose

[JLOL]

my partner would argue that a slow 3 spades usually suggests a 3 card suit so he felt ethically obliged to raise to 4

[MFA]

JLOL, on Apr 8 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

my partner would argue that a slow 3 spades usually suggests a 3 card suit so he felt ethically obliged to raise to 4

sounds rather expensive in appeal deposits

[JLOL]

MFA, on Apr 8 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

JLOL, on Apr 8 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

my partner would argue that a slow 3 spades usually suggests a 3 card suit so he felt ethically obliged to raise to 4

sounds rather expensive in appeal deposits

lol really? I guess I'm crazy because it seems way more likely partner is deciding what to do with xxx Qxxx xxx xxx, or has bid 3S with Kxx xxx xxx xxxx than that partner has a hand that wants to bid 4 when they think and bid 3.

Guess this is why I bid 4? lol

[sartaj1]

I would choose 4H.
We make sure we play a 4-4 spade fit this way. And if partner has only 3 spades, we play our best strain at the 5-level.

[MFA]

JLOL, on Apr 8 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

MFA, on Apr 8 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

JLOL, on Apr 8 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

my partner would argue that a slow 3 spades usually suggests a 3 card suit so he felt ethically obliged to raise to 4

sounds rather expensive in appeal deposits

lol really? I guess I'm crazy because it seems way more likely partner is deciding what to do with xxx Qxxx xxx xxx, or has bid 3S with Kxx xxx xxx xxxx than that partner has a hand that wants to bid 4 when they think and bid 3.

Guess this is why I bid 4? lol

Yes, it would be quite an uphill struggle to make a claim like that to a TD or an AC, after partner has just hesitated with a standard good 3♠ hand.

I'm confident I wouldn't huddle here. It is a principle for me, when it comes to constructive game bidding, that I never huddle partner out of a game.
As usual 3♠ huddled is the worst bid, so if I were caught on an odd, sleepy day, I would have to bid 4.

[gnasher]

I think most players huddle differently with a bad hand than with a good hand, so without screens you'd usually be able to tell what your partner was thinking about.

[Apollo81]

Partner had ♠AKQT ♥A ♦xxx ♣QT9xx, so game is making unless ♠Jxxx is offside, the weak jumpshift has the ♣K, or LHO has 4-6-1-2 shape. I only bid 3♠, and 4♠ was cold at the table.