[inquiry]

Of course, diamonds have to be 3-1 or 2-2 so assume that in your line.

East preempted in spades at the three level, West raised spades to the five level. You are in 7NT. West leads the spade king, East plays the spade JACK.

In addition to voting, please explain your line, be as specific as possible, After all, how hard can it be?

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[Phil]

Some kind of April's Fool Joke Ben?

[inquiry]

Phil, on Apr 1 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Some kind of April's Fool Joke Ben?

I don't know, is there any point to the play that you would want to teach one of your students? If not, consider it a joke. If so, what is it.

I will say, this one has no squeeze at all in it... and I will add that, like the others, this was played on BBO in 7NT.

I will admit that placing this in the interesting hand section is not a great choice, but i wanted to keep the stream of 7NT contracts in the same forum.

[Phil]

inquiry, on Apr 1 2009, 11:15 PM, said:

Phil, on Apr 1 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Some kind of April's Fool Joke Ben?

I don't know, is there any point to the play that you would want to teach one of your students? If not, consider it a joke. If so, what is it.

I will say, this one has no squeeze at all in it... and I will add that, like the others, this was played on BBO in 7NT.

I will admit that placing this in the interesting hand section is not a great choice, but i wanted to keep the stream of 7NT contracts in the same forum.

OK, I'll bite, what does RHO come up with in the minors?

[inquiry]

Phil, on Apr 1 2009, 11:45 PM, said:

inquiry, on Apr 1 2009, 11:15 PM, said:

Phil, on Apr 1 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Some kind of April's Fool Joke Ben?

I don't know, is there any point to the play that you would want to teach one of your students? If not, consider it a joke. If so, what is it.

I will say, this one has no squeeze at all in it... and I will add that, like the others, this was played on BBO in 7NT.

I will admit that placing this in the interesting hand section is not a great choice, but i wanted to keep the stream of 7NT contracts in the same forum.

OK, I'll bite, what does RHO come up with in the minors?

Now u are getting some place, what are you looking for?

RHO shows up with 3♦ and 2♣.

[Mbodell]

inquiry, on Apr 1 2009, 09:06 PM, said:

Now u are getting some place, what are you looking for?

RHO shows up with 3♦ and 2♣.

Well if the 3♠ is likely to have 7 spades then RHO has a stiff and we need it to be an honor (cash the K, run the J). If RHO has a doubleton we can also pin Tx by playing K then running the J, or we can hope for Qx by finessing the RHO and/or banging down the K and A.

[se12sam]

I think the full bidding is needed to really determine this one.

1. Who is dealer? If South, the bidding starts 1♦ - pass - 2♦* (inverted) for the "3♠ preempt" to make sense

2. Was West dealer? If yes, Did North open 2♣ or 1♦? After pass - 1♦, I'm not sure many will preempt to 3♠ with a 6-card suit and 1 HCP hand. But after pass - 2♣, anything can happen.

3. If North is dealer, the same question arises. After a 1♦ opening, not all Easts will jump to 3♠ with ♠J109xxx(x) ♥10(x) ♦xxx ♣xx. But a 2♣ opening removes all shackles from East. Now anything goes

I don't think there is any clear cut answer.

1. If East overcalled 3♠ after (west) pass - 2♣, I'd play him for the weakest possible hand ♠J109xxx ♥10x ♦xxx ♣xx
2. If East overcalled 3♠ after (South) 1♦ - pass - 2♦, I'd play him for ♥Q doubleton.
3. If East overcalled 3♠ after (North) 1♦, I'd play him for ♥Q doubleton.
... etc.

I might be totally wrong on this, but I do not think there is a stand-out favourite line here.

[mikeh]

The auction is important here, since if S opened at the 1-level, at this vulnerability, some Wests would overcall with KQxxx Qxxx in the majors, and thus we'd have an inference about the heart Q.

Assuming that N or E opened, then the inferences are different.

If rho shows with 5 minors suit cards, and made a 3-level preempt on a suit headed by the J10, I would play him for a stiff heart, or 10x. Qx is as likely as 10x, except for LHO's action... surely with KQxxx xxxx x xxx, he might have bid more than 5♠ white v red?

So I would cash the minors, and then play the heart K and run the J, but I don't think this one belongs with the others.. the others require more technique... this one is merely a guess, with no assurance of being correct.

[Apollo81]

I'll call it a 5, which I think means int+/adv-

Intermediate level players may not think to get the count of the hand by cashing their minor winners, nor may they realize that the hand is makeable if RHO has ♥Tx

I don't think it's as easy as the other votes indicate because if RHO were to appear to have 3 hearts, then I would guess to try the surrounding play (which even adv- players may not see).

[mikeh]

Apollo81, on Apr 2 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

I'll call it a 5, which I think means int+/adv-

Intermediate level players may not think to get the count of the hand by cashing their minor winners, nor may they realize that the hand is makeable if RHO has ♥Tx

I don't think it's as easy as the other votes indicate because if RHO were to appear to have 3 hearts, then I would guess to try the surrounding play (which even adv- players may not see).

I would never try the surrounding play if I deduced that hearts were 3-3: that requires a specific lie of two cards, so is a priori only 25% as opposed to the simple finesse at 50%, and I don't think that there are enough or strong enough inferences to say that LHO is twice as likely as the a priori odds to hold the Q.

[Apollo81]

So you don't think the auction makes West at least twice as likely to hold the ♥Q than East? I do, I think it's fairly close, and I'm open to being told I'm wrong.

If I had KQxx(x) of my partner's suit and nothing else, then I would probably bid 6♠ at favorable. Also some people might not preempt on JTxxxxx Qxx x xx because the hand is triply flawed (bad suit, Qxx hearts, low tricks).

[Apollo81]

Just out of curiosity...

was the auction (3♠)-Dbl-(5♠)-7NT?

[Trumpace]

I rate it 5. Trying to discover the count is not something that most players do.

[mikeh]

Apollo81, on Apr 2 2009, 10:26 AM, said:

I'm open to being told I'm wrong.

you're wrong

Of course, there is no way to prove which of us is correct: all we can do is apply our subjective experience. Even 'knowing' what worked on the actual hand would be of no real assistance, since one iteration would prove virtually nothing... we each concede that the other's view would work quite often. And, in reality, the issue is contingent on an accurate read of the opps' tendencies in a low frequency scenario.

[jdonn]

I would take the regular finesse. Another minor advantage is you are down less if it fails (since if you see you were wrong you won't finesse on the second round of hearts), but I think it's more likely to work than the other play anyway.

Edit: You know you have to pardon me that my original count was off by 1. I think rather than take the finesse I should cash the king, and if nothing interesting happens just play for the drop on the second round (essentially the same play as taking the finesse) but if the ten falls take the finesse the other way since the ten is much more likely a singleton (or falsecard from Tx?) than QT doubleton.

[inquiry]

Ckearly one is going to have to play for the heart finesse unless you discover something interesting. When theis hand was pllayed, no one tried to discover anything interesting, they simply took the heart hook or cashed out top hearts (in 6NT).

This hand seems to be a discovery lesson hand. You are going to take the heart hook unless you discover something to keep you from doing so.

As you run your minors, west has to keep 3 hearts or you cash out, so he ends up showing the spade Q. in the final 3 card ending, you know rho most probably has one heart, if it is not an honor you are defeated, when you lead low towards the KJ9, you get to see what it is.

For the bidding I plead lazness... north opened 2NT, east overcalled 3s, but i had typed north as north and wanted to keep south as declarer and was too lazy to retype it so i just hid the real auction.

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I rate this one as a 3 myself.