[inquiry]

Mike (Trpltrbl) and I seldom agree on things bridge-related. But his latest post in the BBO Story thread, he says something I think that has a lot of merit. He said, "completely irrelavant. This really su***".

I have my own opinions about the thread (you can imagine, given I have not posted in it)...but in the beginning it seemed like fun. Perhaps it has drifted away from that. Let me share some statics about this thread with the community. Up to now, it contains 252 post, each around 6 words each. A couple of people have complained to me about this thread, and with Mike's public comments, I thought I would poll the community on what they think of it.

[csdenmark]

5 words exactly. - That's the rule for the story.

[aisha759]

As one of the "players" and avid participants in this thread, I am glad you decided to take this poll Ben, and i voted for #2...
This thread started out in good fun, and there were a few rules: it had to follow, (it didnt necessarily have to make sense) but most important, we wanted to bring in nicks of BBO players, bridge terminology which would be shown in red for readers to notice..... As I recall, Fred was reading the posts once, and he had a positive attitude about it... he actually said it was nice and that he liked it.
It went haywire though, and i dont want to get into why, and it is not about it not making sense, it is about it not following the previous sentence, and not using correct BBO nicks and bridge terms.... anyway, I'm glad its over, and YESSSSSS it was a lot of fun, except for a few who tried to ruin it on purpose.... but to each his own i say!

Have a nice day

Aisha

[slothy]

i agree with Aisha, which is ironic as we seldom agree on anything, bridge-related or otherwise

I actually voted for 3.

I introduced the thread as i was curious. I am no longer curious

[spwdo]

hi,

i guess u can close /delete it or whateever, i only dont understand ppl complaining bout it??????

Why read it, its diffrent in other topics where im almost obligated to read some members replies who to say the least are not on my my favourites writers , so no why to filter them out

Others parts of the forum not suitable for me( italian forum /expert forum) i do not read.

Maybe a suggestion for the "complainers", do not go to story thread, do not read upon it, DO NOT GO THERE TO WRITE

Was fun for those who liked it, unfortunaly we saw some sabotaging attempts .



Maybe its time to start something completely new and unseen before, lets say a six word story thread

We happy to make inquirys
regulary storythread number of posts
count to know whats populair
Sorry Partner Well Done Opss

[csdenmark]

NO Ben - now you seems on your way down the line again.

- I dont ask for silly questions to be deleted!

- I dont ask for wrong or silly answers to be deleted!

- I dont ask for topics only of interest for a few to be deleted!

- I dont ask for postings in languages I dont understand to be deleted!

If I did so I would be very happy to receive the decline: NO - freedom of speech!

You may imagine how much left of the BBO Forum Database if my guidelines for stuff of relevance was to apply to. - Thank Heaven they are not to apply to. Nobody's guidelines to apply to. That's the basic of free societies.

The only problem here is to set up a poll to query whether human rights are to be applied.

[Erkson]

csdenmark, on May 1 2004, 12:10 PM, said:

...freedom of speech!

...human rights...

Again with that !

I am totally fed up.

freedom of speech... human rights... unisex marriages... are no more than mind constructions imagined in Europe or USA at a moment of History. Maybe one day they will be considered like other deliriums which passed away.

Many cultures live very well without them.

Freedom of speech is for me like a pouring faucet that somebody forgot to close.

Erkson.

[spwdo]

Erkson, on May 1 2004, 11:45 PM, said:

csdenmark, on May 1 2004, 12:10 PM, said:

...freedom of speech!

...human rights...

Again with that !

I am totally fed up.

freedom of speech... human rights... are no more than mind constructions imagined in Europe at a moment of History. Maybe one day they will be considered like other deliriums which passed away.

Many cultures live very well without them.

Freedom of speech is for me like a pouring faucet that somebody forgot to close.

Erkson.

hi

wondering why u are so expert in telling what is a "delirium", maybe u drunk to much , dont know .Maybe some day ppl that are "fed-up" will come to senses and stop fighting wars over freeedom of speech,oil,religion,bridgeplay&useless story threads


But we were talking here about an innocent "story thread" where nobody was harmed, and what was very easy to not read if u dont want too.
Why edit or stop something that as all things in life reaches his end naturally,
this asking opnion for doing a supported by others "euthanasia" is i believe not needed and inpropiate .

I even dont like the halfediting on trpltrbls replie, thats showing dislike for something and therefore doing a not-professionel job, maybe warn yourself for it Ben since nobody else can(u proven to do much better then that in the past, nothing personnal Ben but just the way i see it , sorry no offence ment by it)


Marc

p.S Claus , u see miracles do happen, we finaly at least not disagree on a issue.Not getting in the huma right movement but u make as far as im concerned a couple of good points

[Erkson]

spwdo, on May 1 2004, 03:16 PM, said:

wondering why u are so expert in telling what is a "delirium", maybe u drunk to much , dont know

(localized?) form of humour totally unintelligible here.

Erkson

[csdenmark]

YES it is Erkson. A lot of people don't know and don't understand the basic of our societies. Atrocities of all kinds you therefore see everywhere.

In matters of principles - please be serious and serious only!

[Erkson]

csdenmark, on May 1 2004, 03:43 PM, said:

YES it is Erkson. A lot of people don't know and don't understand the basic of our societies. Atrocities of all kinds you therefore see everywhere.

In matters of principles - please be serious and serious only!

I try hard, Claus, but I can't look at "our societies" as a model for the World.

Erkson

[spwdo]

Erkson, on May 2 2004, 12:59 AM, said:

csdenmark, on May 1 2004, 03:43 PM, said:

YES it is Erkson. A lot of people don't know and don't understand the basic of our societies. Atrocities of all kinds you therefore see everywhere.

In matters of principles - please be serious and serious only!

I try hard, Claus, but I can't look at "our societies" as a model for the World.

Erkson

hi,


didnt see any suggesting about "our societies" beeing model for the world , this started as a thread/poll wether or not stop a thing not liked by others , so its all about allowance and tolerating other things that are not hurting others in any way. A demand for support for deleting something that some dont like.


So after every post in whatever area we shoud ask in a poll wheter or not something has to be deleted when its stupid/non bridgerelated/opinion not chared by majority ??????


Im not suggesting free speech, i think smarter then me man or woman shoud decide what is harmfull,rasist and some other criteraes as well but i think when nobody is harmed just let it be, thats all


Marc

[inquiry]

The thread will stay. Thanks for the votes. But just a few notes on the comments made here.

First, I agree with Aisha that the purpose of the thread was taken over by others, for reason unknown. Perhpas to change themselves from novice to beginner posters by getting cheap post. Who knows? One poster who has joined recently has now gotten themsevles in the top 75 of all posters on the BBO and has only one post (so far) not in that thread. And I think this person was one of those hijacking the purpose of the thread. It is interesting that slothy, the starter of the thread, voted to delete it.

Second, censorship. Well, all I did in this poll was to raise a question here. A question dealing with more than that one thread. I think we can all agree that the post had nothing to do with "GENERAL BRIDGE DISCUSSION". That forum is specifically for "talk about bridge, systems, conventions, upcoming events, and more". Whatever you want to say about that thread, it wasn't a bridge discussion. As you know, the rules of this site clearly state post in each forum should be appropriate. I suspect that thread (and this one) should have been under "General BBO discussion".

So on two grounds, according the rules of this site, I could have deleted that thread at anytime. I repeat the rule here for you...

Keep posts on-topic and in the correct boards. We will move/delete threads that are in an improper place. and as I noted, it is in the wrong place, and it has drifted far off topic.

And to Claus and Marc. I will address your "censorship" concerns here. In the US, our first constitutionan Amendment deals with free speech. It says, "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The purpose of this amendment is to protect even the most offensive and controversial speech from government suppression. But, try to use the F-word on public airways, or try to exercise your "freedoom of speech" by exposing your breast during the halftime of the superbowl, as Janet Jackson did, and you will find that freedom of speech isn't quite as free as it seems. In society there are some rules we all have to follow. In the global society that makes up the bridge base forum, those rules are stated in the "rules of this site".

Censorship that is regulated is that by the goverment, and at least in the US, censorship by the goverment is illegal (with some notable exception.. like child pornography). Non-goverment entities can exercise "censorship" For instance, IF you want to start a right-wing newspaper, you don't have to allow people from the left to express their veiws in you paper. Rather than calling this censorship of course, they will refer to it as "editorial decisions". If I had deleted the thread (with an appropriate vote here), it would have been an editorial decision because the thread is outside the stated content for the forum it is in.

So unless you have proof material removed from this BBO is at the direction of the goverment, the extremely few changes that happen here are editorial decisions consistent with the "rules of this site" and has nothing to do with censorship.

[mishovnbg]

Hi all!
My vote was to ignore and leave people to enjoy their game. It is true that this forum is for bridge discussions, but great game Bridge have also social aspect of communication between people and their understanding. I like to play and communicate with members of this forum, because reading their posts I learn much about them, like about any of my friends and I feel them similar. If that non-bridge post help to improve palyer's relationship, it becomes bridge oriented, no matter how strange it looks like...
Have a fun and nice Bridge all friends♥♥♥!

P.S. Ben, eccentric and clever men like Slothy are very useful for BBO community, because like king's jester in the past they show without fear weakness and nonsense. In BBO forum his post showed wrong way of determining skill of any poster by number of posts, despite what kind they are. Need to notice that unlike one expert poster, who reach his statust by posting lot of nonsense, Sloth's post had excellent social role as well as mind gymnastics helpful for bridge players.

Please don't bother unnecessary nice Ben, who have lot of important for BBO work to do without your jokes...

Misho

[csdenmark]

Yes Ben - censorship is nothing about abolishing editorial rights and duties. It is the right not to be handicapped by arbitrarial solutions.

This means you have the rights to set up the policy and the duty to see to that the policy is the guideline for rulings.

Quote

it would have been an editorial decision because the thread is outside the stated content for the forum it is in.

Lets take this as an example. You have the rights to delete all threads and postings in a wrong section but you have no right deleting only those you dont like yourself. I have the impression you try to be helpful and switch threads into the right section. So would be your duty here too. You cannot claim rights to delete only this thread according to posted in a wrong section. You certainly need to rule quick as possible and not after 250 postings.

I think I have heard something about some people who have tried to intermidate the thread. Here you have special duties guarding the rights of people lawfully to pursue their objectives. Your duty is in such cases to intervene for penalizing those people undermining others rights. Your personal preferences are of no relevance but if you have to guard rights you distaste yourself it will be wise to guard those rights very carefully to avoid misunderstandings.

[spwdo]

inquiry, on May 2 2004, 12:25 PM, said:

Keep posts on-topic and in the correct boards. We will move/delete threads that are in an improper place. and as I noted, it is in the wrong place, and it has drifted far off topic.

Hi Ben , this makes sense and i agreed with this reason but the way you edited or came with this asking support for deleting something that is not your favourite thread to say the least made me replie in the way i did.

Im not in the cival right movement for free speech , just letting know the above motivation for this poll is not the right one imo.

To misho , nice you stick up for a friend and good that u noticed the hard work Ben does for BBO but i want to let you know that sounding the "well done Ben" &"dont bother Ben"horn too much isnt good + doing that seems that u are forgetting others(lots do this i m afraid)
A. he might start getting the idea he is flawless
B.Others might think he is the only one donating to BBO
C. Some might even think for example a td never gets to deal with stupid jokes/stupid questions/rude comments and other less amusing things
D.when i ask my td friends to be more actif on the forum they say to me "sorry marc, we cant , we work, then host 4/5 hours a day and like to play a baord or 10 too"



So the next time you are playing in one or the other tourney or in one of your long sessions in main, remeber those tds donating a lot of their time to others and know they will never reach worldclassposter or worldclassplayer status but are apprecaited at least from some.

Ps. dont want to sound hars, had a terrible day (pc format), and beeing hearing to much tds feeling unappreaciated while seeing others getting the compliments they deserved.


note that i m not signing this thread as BBO TD FRIENDS( when i do this is shared opnion)now i m trying to support and show my apprecaition for all the work td do without getting their day in the sun(not talking about me, i feel lucky knowing them in person and having them as friends=is more then enough for me


spwdo

[Shrike]

csdenmark, on May 2 2004, 10:44 AM, said:

You have the rights to delete all threads and postings in a wrong section but you have no right deleting only those you dont like yourself.

Yes he does. Yes, BBO as an entity does. You don't like this policy (which there is no evidence is what is being enforced. . .). You think it's unfair. Great; say so. But don't claim that they don't have the "right" to do it, when it is clear that, legally and morally, they do.

They asked what we thought. We responded to the poll. The decision was made. Now relax, and go play bridge.

[Free]

I just don't get the point of all this... people are having fun, in a way it has 'something' to do with bridge (BBO nicks as a matter of fact), and because it's sooo popular it should be deleted??
I don't know where all these topic-killers come from, but I have only 1 advise for them: GET OUT YOUR BASEMENT, SEE SOMETHING FROM THE WORLD AND LET SOMEONE ELSE HAVE FUN! Djeez, I find it really SILLY that people are complaining about this.

Perhaps there's a chance that some people want to get their post-total up, but who cares anyway?? I never look at the ammount of posts someone has. I just know if a post comes from certain people that it's worth reading for sure. And reaching the top-75? Woohoo, heavy danger! I know others which came here and the first time I read any post of them they had already 50+ posts, some relevant, some not. The entire forum was modified by posts on even very old topics, but nobody complained then...

Anyway, this thread would've stopped (happens with all extremely-fast extremely-popular things), so just have some patience - too late now.
In the meantime, this thread itself has as much to do with bridge as the topic some people want to get deleted...

[inquiry]

Free, on May 3 2004, 01:38 AM, said:

Perhaps there's a chance that some people want to get their post-total up, but who cares anyway??

I don't think more than a very small handful of people care about this. I do get complaints from time to time about certain posters who post nonsense in an apparent effort to run up their total (no other explaination seems possible for 35 post on one day and none of them add anything to any discussion). So a few people get irrate at that. As a moderator, I can understand why, because I try to read every post (as do some o those complaining) and there is only so much time in a day, so such dribble if nothing else slow me down. However, I have never deleted such a post.

I will say, at least when such activity is "restricted" to a "fun" post, the great majority of users can just choose to ignore the entire thread.

Ben

[enormouschicken]

inquiry, on May 2 2004, 04:25 AM, said:

First, I agree with Aisha that the purpose of the thread was taken over by others, for reason unknown. Perhpas to change themselves from novice to beginner posters by getting cheap post. Who knows? One poster who has joined recently has now gotten themsevles in the top 75 of all posters on the BBO and has only one post (so far) not in that thread. And I think this person was one of those hijacking the purpose of the thread. It is interesting that slothy, the starter of the thread, voted to delete it.

I suspect that I am 'that' poster. As it happens, I am a friend and colleague of slothy who, on joining the forum knew nothing about bridge whatsoever. (Apart from it being a card game.)

Having participated in the story thread and asked questions of slothy about bridge, I have learned a few things about bridge and the people on this forum. Can any of you say that this is not a good thing?

I would have thought that encouraging new players/forum members to join in in any way they feel they can is an important function of this forum. If slothy had said to me before my posting here "do you fancy learning to play bridge?" I would have told him that it wasn't for me. Bridge seemed a little impenetrable as a hobby, but maybe as I participate more and more in this forum I will feel more able to contribute to discussions that ARE about bridge.

As for 'upping my post count', I couldn't care less about a number/rank next to my name. Many of the other forums I am a member of don't have this facility and I still post there just as much.

As slothy and a few others have mentioned, one of the points of the thread was for people to have fun. I was, and I do agree with other people that it has run its course and was getting boring. It would probably have burned itself out anyway if slothy hadn't closed it.

Finally, it seems to me that some of you on here want to keep the discussions on this forum solely about bridge. Surely a vital part of any online community is that there is a facility for talking about other things. Unless you WANT to keep bridge impenetrable and alienate newbies. You don't, do you?