[rogerclee]

IMPs, All White, First Seat

♠xx ♥AQT98xx ♦AKx ♣K

Uncontested:

1♥ - 2♦
2♥ - 2NT
3♦ - 3♥
4♣ - 4♥
?

4♦ by partner would have been LTTC.

Side Question: Do you think partner can have a small doubleton in hearts?

[nige1]

rogerclee, on Jun 21 2008, 03:04 AM, said:

IMPs, All White, First Seat ♠xx ♥AQT98xx ♦AKx ♣K
Uncontested:
1♥ - 2♦
2♥ - 2NT
3♦ - 3♥
4♣ - 4♥
?
4♦ by partner would have been LTTC.
Side Question: Do you think partner can have a small doubleton in hearts?

IMO

• Partner may have a small doubleton in ♥ but, on the bidding is more likely to hold an honour.
  
• Now, 5♥ = 10, 4N = 9, _P = 7.
  Justin is probably right (as usual) but I fear that partner may be worried about poor ♦ or poor ♥ if he holds say
  • ♠ KQx ♥ Kx ♦xxxxx ♣ATx
    
  • ♠ AJx ♥ K ♦ Qxxxxx ♣ Qxx
    
  • ♠ Ax ♥ Jx ♦ Qxxxx ♣ Axxx
    
  • ♠ Ax ♥ xx ♦ QJxxx ♣ Axxx

Edit: 2nd Hand had 12 cards but now has 13 cards Thank you Andy_H

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jun 21 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

I need prime cards to make slam and since partner didn't try anything over 4C I don't think he will have what I need unless he has SA, HK, and DQ specifically.

Would he have bid 4♦ with Axx xx QJxxx AJx ?

More generally, does 4♦ show any extras, or just a vaguely suitable minimum?

[Trinidad]

gnasher, on Jun 21 2008, 07:12 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 21 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

I need prime cards to make slam and since partner didn't try anything over 4C I don't think he will have what I need unless he has SA, HK, and DQ specifically.

Would he have bid 4♦ with Axx xx QJxxx AJx ?

More generally, does 4♦ show any extras, or just a vaguely suitable minimum?

I assume that we have specifically denied a spade control by bypassing 3♠. Then, IMO, the meanings for the 4♥ bid and its alternatives are:

4♥: No spade control or (conceivably) just a hand that really doesn't want to play in slam.
4♦: Spade control, don't want to go beyond 4♥ (May or may not have a diamond control.)
5♥: Spade control, asking for a diamond control. (Slam forcing if the controls are there)
The rest: Spade control and specific controls (extra's, slam invitational)

Thus, to answer your question: 4♦ doesn't show anything extra. It just shows that slam is still possible (and therefore shows the spade control that we have denied).

Rik

[andy_h]

This is a bit hard. Have we discussed what sort of hands would bid LTTC? Is something like Ax Kx Qxxxx QJxx enough? I'm torn between pass and 5D (or 5H). I want to emphasise diamonds to partner so he knows his Q is a great card, but is 5D just a general invite telling partner to judge his overall hand or does the 5D, bypassing 4S cue telling partner that all we care about is spades? Like maybe our hand could be like xx AQT98xx AKJ A in which keycard doesn't really help us if partner answers 1. So maybe 5H is the general invite bid.

Nigel, your 1st hand looks like a 4D LTTC with such a control-rich hand (and I think I'd do a 2C 2/1 bid rather than 2D...), the 2nd hand is missing a card and the 3rd hand isn't a 2D bid.

And definitely agree that 3H can be bid on xx.

[Apollo81]

I'd cue 5♦

[jdonn]

I don't think this is a hard pass, we have already bid 4♣, our hand is bid out. Partner needs a perfect hand to make slam and 5 is not safe. 4 is not even totally safe.

[mike777]

rogerclee, on Jun 21 2008, 03:04 AM, said:

IMPs, All White, First Seat

♠xx ♥AQT98xx ♦AKx ♣K

Uncontested:

1♥ - 2♦
2♥ - 2NT
3♦ - 3♥
4♣ - 4♥
?

4♦ by partner would have been LTTC.

Side Question: Do you think partner can have a small doubleton in hearts?

Good problem. As a nonexpert, what concerns me is again what an opening bid looks like and therefore what a 2/1 game force looks like. If we open light and 2/1 response is very sound I will cue 5d. If we open very sound and a 2/1 game force on lighter hands then I pass. I note looking at BWS what an opening hand or 2/1 game force response looks like is unclear to me.

For example if we open balanced 11 counts or ten counts with unbalanced as many many forum posters do, I think all or most all of the example hands given in this thread are too weak to bid a 2/1 game force.

[kenrexford]

IMO, pass is 100%.

Opener starts 1♥. Response 2♦. Opener rebids 2♥. So far, no real inferences.

Responder now bids 2NT, showing some uncertainty about strain and/or level.

Opener opts to support the diamonds rather than bid 3♥ with a hand that later pops in a cue over 3♥. Slight inference of value diamonds.

Responder bids 3♥, a natural call.

In the context of this sequence, I think Responder has an obligation to make any initial five-level entry decisions. 4♦ LTTC invites Opener back into the game OR is preparatory for Responder continuing the game. Alternatively, Responder could step past 4♥ without bidding 4♦. But, 4♥ declines, and hard.

All my opinion, of course. This is not to say that Opener cannot have a hand for this auction where he wants to move past 4♥, but I think that any movement past 4♥ suggests something funny about the 3♠ bypass, whatever the partnership agreement is (if any) about false cue bypasses.

[rogerclee]

Partner had ♠KQ ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Qxxx, so you will either play a cold 4♥ or 5♥ regardless of what you do.

(I passed.)

[pclayton]

You have to pass. I would be very surprised if pard has the ♠A + ♥K along with the other goodies needed for a 2/1.

[kenrexford]

rogerclee, on Jun 22 2008, 01:41 PM, said:

Partner had ♠KQ ♥Kx ♦QJxxx ♣Qxxx, so you will either play a cold 4♥ or 5♥ regardless of what you do.

(I passed.)

I would pass also, but I think partner owed you a 4♦ LTTC call. The assured spade control, albeit second-round, but better than Kx, coupled with the critical heart King, makes this hand a 4♦ LTTC call contextually.

If you then simply bid 4NT RKCB, you will hear "one" and quickly depart the slam try.