[bearmum]

tonight I played in a "survivor" tourney and my P and I were REALLY unlucky to play against the ONLY two "yellow star" folks in the whole tourney


After round 1 we were removed because there was an UNEVEN number of couples ( and I guess because we were playing the TWO best players in the tourney we got the bottom score??) ------------ SO UNFAIR as we registered a LONG way in advance of the darn thing !!

I (and maybe my P also) could have played SOMEWHERE else BUT I stayed around for the tourney and played like 6 mins !!!!


I really thought that MOST survivor tourneys allowed at least TWO rounds b4 cutting - or am I wrong??

[hrothgar]

There is a reason that many of us are dismissive of Suvivior Tournaments and don't chose to play in them....

[joker_gib]

Usually the cut begins after 2 rounds but I suppose that it's a parameter that can be chosen by the TD, yes or no ?

[inquiry]

joker_gib, on Apr 8 2004, 09:31 AM, said:

Usually the cut begins after 2 rounds but I suppose that it's a parameter that can be chosen by the TD, yes or no ?

Yes, the percent to be cut and when to start can be controlled by the tournment host.

To bearmum. I am not a fan of survivor tournments myself, simply because one bad round early can get you tossed. While one bad round late, you can still win the event. But such is life, no one forces us to choose to play in a surviovor one.

Ben

[Gerardo]

First cut happens not before board 3.
If 2 boards/round, that's round 2.
If 3 boards/round, that's round 1.

[spwdo]

hi,


let me explain what happen since it was my tourney, i explained this to both players already but i failed obviuosly to do it proper.

Tourney started with 41 tables, format swiss, so NO CUTS based upon SCORES.

What happend?
somewhere down the field one player was missing at round changed , since swiss dont allow sitouts(this is software not tds doing this) one pair was discarded and took the wurst scoring pair along with it, scores from bearnum and partner where 0% and 11%.

In survivor its impossible to allow cuts before second round is complete so twice the numbers of baords per round is the minumun u play, in all the tourneys i hosted was this the first unfortunaly accident (= cut to even out the field)

Ihope in the future we can have the option to host clocked with siwss movement,so nobody is discarded and the best scoring pairs are playing against eachother.


I apoligiest already to jackie and her partner for the unfortunate incident, wasnt something as u can understand that i aimed for , the problem is a little that all prefer the barometer type of tourneys but no baroameter without cuts in some form(every pair with missing player, cuts made by td, cuts to even out the field)

sorry again jackie

[Free]

Hi,

If you play a survivor tourney, you know you can get booted very quick. Complaining afterwards for bad luck is easy, but there's ALWAYS some pair playing against that very good pair, so there's ALWAYS someone who can complain... If it's you, bad luck, these things happen in survivals! However, if it would happen several times in a few tourneys, you have a reason to complain, now I think you don't.

As far as I know, TD's can setup when the first cut is, and explain it in the tourney rules. If it's after the first round, bad luck for the people who get booted or played really awful.

Just my humble opinion

[Gweny]

Sorry free...

But Spwdo is correct. Program determine when first cut happen and tds may adjust up from end of round 2 for 2 board rounds. not sure on 3 board rounds since i do not try this yet.

For me if tournament is running smooth and thanks to automatic tracking of intentional disconnect jerks I think we see many more smooth running tournaments, then I am happy to move out on when first cut happens. If huge numberr of tables is in play across ttournament area and subs is in short supply then i probably do not move when first cut happen out. For you see when first cut happen this free large numbers of people to do other things or return to sub.

We direct tournaments for enjoyment of players. As previously state in many different treads it is important to READ tournament description vs complain after you no idea for what type of tournaments.

For example I adore fast bridge. But last time I try 5 min per board it is complete and total disaster. Why do i not try again? For I very good idea people sign up and do not read description and enter event where they no intention or ability to play 5 min boards thereby ruining experience for all.

Survivors is fun tournaments. They is maybe not "real" bridge but it is exciting to advance to next round and to finally make it to last round. it is not same as winning but trust me... i know of many people who is thrill to find they is playing last round of Fun Fishy

Survivors is answer, in part, to enormus need for subs when jerks who no respect for fellow players or director decide they no hope of winning and disconnect. It is directly relate to intentional disconnections and if Uday's new auto-detect thing work in manner we hope then perhaps we see decline in number of survivors.

[Gweny]

Yes first cut is at end of round 2 for tournaments with 3 board rounds. I try 3 board rounds and first cut do come at end of round 2

[bearmum]

spwdo, on Apr 9 2004, 08:05 AM, said:

hi,


let me explain what happen since it was my tourney, i explained this to both players already but i failed obviuosly to do it proper.

Tourney started with 41 tables, format swiss, so NO CUTS based upon SCORES.

What happend?
somewhere down the field one player was missing at round changed , since swiss dont allow sitouts(this is software not tds doing this) one pair was discarded and took the wurst scoring pair along with it, scores from bearnum and partner where 0% and 11%.

In survivor its impossible to allow cuts before second round is complete so twice the numbers of baords per round is the minumun u play, in all the tourneys i hosted was this the first unfortunaly accident (= cut to even out the field)

Ihope in the future we can have the option to host clocked with siwss movement,so nobody is discarded and the best scoring pairs are playing against eachother.


I apoligiest already to jackie and her partner for the unfortunate incident, wasnt something as u can understand that i aimed for , the problem is a little that all prefer the barometer type of tourneys but no baroameter without cuts in some form(every pair with missing player, cuts made by td, cuts to even out the field)

sorry again jackie

OK apology accepted --------- I sort of understand

[uday]

Just to clarify. Survivor cuts are done at the end of Round 2.
However, Survivor will not tolerate missing players. If a player goes missing at the end of round 1, he will be cut, and the lowest scoring pair will also be cut (to avoid a half table).


*This is working as designed*. Anyone who objects to being cut should find another Tourney, with another movement. "Swiss" movements are like survivor, minus the cuts.

Someday, we'll figure out how to run Ts w/o TDs, and we'll probably use some variant of survivor as the base movement.

[Frosty]

Yikes - if Uday is trying to figure out how to run Tourneys without TD's then I better add my comments quickly before I become irrelevant. No comments from the gallery on my current irrelevance, S.V.P.

I too prefer tournaments with cuts since our tournaments are still a more social form of play. For me the biggest reason its a good option is because there is a chronic tendency for those at the bottom of the barrel to disappear in mid-stream anyway. With the tracking UDAY has added, this headache may eventually recede, but its been a problem that was partially resolved by the advent of Survivor events.

I concur with Gweny, I love the Survivor format - though she and I both cut our internet bridge teeth on "knock-out" tournaments (which are a non-swiss movement form of the Survivor games), so we are biased, I suppose. As a player, if I am doing poorly, I would rather move on and start in a new game or offer to sub. And NO - I don't sub to share my card cooties LOL!

As a TD, I do tire of explaining, to a player or pair, why they have been excused from the tournament since I'm shameless about making tournament announcements during the first/send rounds about upcoming cuts. Its a source of constant amazement to me that no one reads the instructions, rules or TD's comments LOL!!

To solve the problem of pairs being cut when there are an uneven number of pairs due to a bad connection being excused - is there any possibility of sit-outs?

[spwdo]

hi,


changing again today to full swiss mode so sitouts are allowed in the climb of the matterhorn, we ll see how it goes, i was forced to do survivor due to the many intentionel disconnect and i see now players going offline seconds before round change, smart huh , to not be counted as intentionel disconnect.



i ll get back on this in a couple of hours


as jan im fast adding my comments before my 8 hours and more services a day will no longer be needed:)

[bearmum]

uday, on Apr 10 2004, 03:00 AM, said:

Just to clarify. Survivor cuts are done at the end of Round 2.
However, Survivor will not tolerate missing players. If a player goes missing at the end of round 1, he will be cut, and the lowest scoring pair will also be cut (to avoid a half table).


*This is working as designed*. Anyone who objects to being cut should find another Tourney, with another movement. "Swiss" movements are like survivor, minus the cuts.

Someday, we'll figure out how to run Ts w/o TDs, and we'll probably use some variant of survivor as the base movement.

Thanks uday - I WILL avoid survivor in future and look for Swiss

[spwdo]

hi

climb of the matterhorn is swiss again, we seeing enormous decrease of subs needed, in stead of the usual 10% in total at least it comes down to very few who leave after bad baords, i guess the new software is doing its job perfectly, when things continui like this format of bridge too far is changing too i think to swiss, i always prefered that movement personally and i think majority of players likes it as well.







spwdo

[bearmum]

spwdo, on Apr 15 2004, 10:19 PM, said:

hi

climb of the matterhorn is swiss again, we seeing enormous decrease of subs needed, in stead of the usual 10% in total at least it comes down to very few who leave after bad baords, i guess the new software is doing its job perfectly, when things continui like this format of bridge too far is changing too i think to swiss, i always prefered that movement personally and i think majority of players likes it as well.







spwdo

Great - I will look for "climb of matterhorn" tourneys again

[EarlPurple]

If a player leaves a tourney can't you put a sub in, even for survivor tourneys?

[Gerardo]

Yes, BUT must be done before round change. Pairs with absent member at round change are discarded from the tourney (in survivor).

[spwdo]

hi

yes on gerardo, what happend here was one pair had player going offline seconds before roundchange taking another pair out of the tourney with them:( to avoid sitouts.This happens in survivor even with 0% cuts.

We happy now we changed back to full swiss movement, is possible now again since the number of subs needed dropped significully.


Couple of days now and we start trying if bridge too far can be same format as the climb, is kinda big tourney and we hope this will cause no severe probs.





marc