[Mbodell]

Scoring: MP

1♥-1♠
3♥-??

---

And, what would your call be if the hand were something like QJxxx - Qxxx Qxxx?

[pclayton]

3N. 4♥ and 3♠ are a distant 2nd and 3rd.

I would pass with that 2nd hand which is a pile of drek.

[jdonn]

3NT wtp. Pass on your weaker example wtp?

[skjaeran]

3NT. Can miss 4♠, but rebidding 3♠ is more apt to miss 3NT. Partner will bid 4♥ when that's where we belong.

On the weak hand pass is more than obvious.

[Mbodell]

Ok so looks like most people here are in agreement. The questions I wanted to make sure of, which I've gotten different answers from different people, is:

1. Is 3♥ forcing?
2. Does 3♠ promise 6?
3. Is 3NT sign-off and/or do you worry about missing 4♠ or 6♠ with a hand like given in the problem. Presumably 3NT doesn't promise 5 spades as you could have something like Axxx x xxxxx KQx for your 3NT?
4. Is 4m a cue in support of hearts or a hand still bidding shape looking for the best game?

Sounds like consensus is no; yes; sign-off (or pass/correct to 4♥) with no worries about missing spades/what can you do; cue.

[Cascade]

wtp?

The problem is we have five spades and 4♠ or even 6♠ could be better than 3NT.

Having said that there is no sensibe way to get to spades since opener rates to not have three spades and will sometimes be not well placed over 3♠ and raise on a doubleton - just as Justin said.

Opener with 3=6 is the majors is not well placed in standard methods - this is sometimes called the BridgeWorld hand of death. There are alternative methods where a jump to 3♥ or some other bid shows three spades and six hearts and the values for a 3♥ opening bid. If we were playing one of those methods as I usually do then I would make one slam try and see if partner wants to cooperate.

With the weaker hand we have no option but to pass. Any move over 3♥ in standard is game forcing. Of course when we play 3♥ promises three spades we allow a correction to 3♠ to be non-forcing.

[skjaeran]

Cascade, on Mar 22 2008, 12:40 AM, said:

wtp?

The problem is we have five spades and 4♠ or even 6♠ could be better than 3NT.

Having said that there is no sensibe way to get to spades since opener rates to not have three spades and will sometimes be not well placed over 3♠ and raise on a doubleton - just as Justin said.

Opener with 3=6 is the majors is not well placed in standard methods - this is sometimes called the BridgeWorld hand of death. There are alternative methods where a jump to 3♥ or some other bid shows three spades and six hearts and the values for a 3♥ opening bid. If we were playing one of those methods as I usually do then I would make one slam try and see if partner wants to cooperate.

With the weaker hand we have no option but to pass. Any move over 3♥ in standard is game forcing. Of course when we play 3♥ promises three spades we allow a correction to 3♠ to be non-forcing.

Some use a 3NT rebid over 1♥ - 1♠ to show a GF with 3-6(+) in the majors.

[jdeegan]

3NT Lotsa high cards, but it's a MISFIT without enough power for six. No bidding room left. Time to bail out into the most likely contract.

[foo]

Cascade, on Mar 21 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

wtp?

The problem is we have five spades and 4♠ or even 6♠ could be better than 3NT.

Having said that there is no sensibe way to get to spades since opener rates to not have three spades and will sometimes be not well placed over 3♠ and raise on a doubleton - just as Justin said.

Opener with 3=6 is the majors is not well placed in standard methods - this is sometimes called the BridgeWorld hand of death.  There are alternative methods where a jump to 3♥ or some other bid shows three spades and six hearts and the values for a 3♥ opening bid.  If we were playing one of those methods as I usually do then I would make one slam try and see if partner wants to cooperate.

With the weaker hand we have no option but to pass.  Any move over 3♥ in standard is game forcing.  Of course when we play 3♥ promises three spades we allow a correction to 3♠ to be non-forcing.

There is a "Science" way of dealing with this that is used by Karen McCallum and others.

1M-1N;2C! or 1H-1S;2C! is artificial and may contain 6+M strong enough to JR.
1M-1foo;3M then promises a 7 card suit.

Responder's continuations
...2D!= "Tell me more" usually GF unless O has the weak 5+M 4+m hand
...2H= H Preference
...2S= 2-H and 5+S
...2N= 4 ♠'s and a longer minor (and a hand not good enough to 2/1)
...3m= at least 55 in ♠'s + m
...3H= "I was going to raise ♥'s after bidding ♠'s" 3-4 ♥'s LR values.
...3S= 1-H, 6+S or even 7+S, excellent ♠'s "This is trumps pard"
...3N= To Play

Opener's continuations after the 2D! relay are not germane to this post.

[Cascade]

skaeran, on Mar 22 2008, 08:42 PM, said:

Cascade, on Mar 22 2008, 12:40 AM, said:

wtp?

The problem is we have five spades and 4♠ or even 6♠ could be better than 3NT.

Having said that there is no sensibe way to get to spades since opener rates to not have three spades and will sometimes be not well placed over 3♠ and raise on a doubleton - just as Justin said.

Opener with 3=6 is the majors is not well placed in standard methods - this is sometimes called the BridgeWorld hand of death.  There are alternative methods where a jump to 3♥ or some other bid shows three spades and six hearts and the values for a 3♥ opening bid.  If we were playing one of those methods as I usually do then I would make one slam try and see if partner wants to cooperate.

With the weaker hand we have no option but to pass.  Any move over 3♥ in standard is game forcing.  Of course when we play 3♥ promises three spades we allow a correction to 3♠ to be non-forcing.

Some use a 3NT rebid over 1♥ - 1♠ to show a GF with 3-6(+) in the majors.

We use that as well. On this auction

1♥ 1♠
3♥ shows 3=6 and limited - nominally 16-18

1♥ 1♠
3NT shows 3=6 and GF - around 19+

[Cascade]

foo, on Mar 23 2008, 01:49 AM, said:

There is a "Science" way of dealing with this that is used by Karen McCallum and others.

1M-1N;2C! or 1H-1S;2C! is artificial and may contain 6+M strong enough to JS.
1M-1foo;3M then promises a 7 card suit.

This ain't a jump shift auction.

It is a jump rebid auction - i guess that is what you mean.

[foo]

Typo fixed.