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JS/Reverse after Redouble

#1 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 17:13

What kind of hand would bid this way? (1♠ then 3♣)

1♠-(Dbl)-Rdbl-(P)
3♣

Values, distribution, or both?
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#2 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 17:20

6-5 GF - which isnt that strong after the redouble.

Maybe some 5-5-3-0.
Wayne Burrows

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Posted 2008-February-12, 17:22

shapely GF
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#4 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 17:24

2♣ here would be weak. A better hand usually starts with pass.

But with wildly distributional hands, passing first may not be so practical.This should show a GF hand with two good suits and at least 10 cards in them.
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#5 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 17:52

I'd assume that it was non-forcing. Something like AQJ10x x xx KQJxx.

I don't have a strong opinion about whether it should be forcing - this is just what I believe to be the default meaning.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#6 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 18:29

It seems like after an opening and a redouble, you're on a pretty narrow range of values. Any bid that "sounds strong" like a jump should probably be GF. Otherwise it just becomes very hard to bid intelligently. I'd bid 2♣ with any 5-5 hand that doesn't want to be in game opposite partner's 10+ so 3♣ would be a "good 5-5" since passing and then bidding later will be more ambiguous about shape.
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Posted 2008-February-12, 21:09

gnasher, on Feb 12 2008, 06:52 PM, said:

I'd assume that it was non-forcing. Something like AQJ10x x xx KQJxx.

I don't have a strong opinion about whether it should be forcing - this is just what I believe to be the default meaning.

you're so english :)
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#8 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 22:47

2C would be forcing since XX is forcing until at least 2S. So 3C show extreme distribution.
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Posted 2008-February-12, 22:53

benlessard, on Feb 12 2008, 11:47 PM, said:

2C would be forcing since XX is forcing until at least 2S.

?!
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#10 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-12, 23:48

benlessard, on Feb 12 2008, 10:47 PM, said:

2C would be forcing since XX is forcing until at least 2S. So 3C show extreme distribution.

Usually an immediate 2C shows a weak shapely opening (why else would you object to partner's desire to double, after all) so in particular it is non-forcing.
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#11 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 03:32

I agree with gnasher. It doesn't sound forcing to me.
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#12 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 03:48

3♣ sounds very forcing to me. Partner said "I am strong, do you want to dbl them?"

Response: "I am strong too, but I have too much shape and whatever we double, I'll be afraid we will miss something better"
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#13 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 04:40

3♣ is obviously some strong, offensive 55. A fit is virtually guaranteed because pard's rdbl usually shows something in clubs.
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#14 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 14:37

2♣ would be NF with a weak 2-suiter, 6-5 with my regular since we open 1♣ with a minimum 55.

3♣ should be a strong GF 2-suiter.
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#15 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 14:43

skaeran, on Feb 13 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

2♣ would be NF with a weak 2-suiter, 6-5 with my regular since we open 1♣ with a minimum 55.

3♣ should be a strong GF 2-suiter.

agree
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#16 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 15:26

2♣ can't be forcing but I doubt its passed very often.

3♣ shows a very offensive hand, since both 2♣ and pass are in the game.

I'd say 3♣ looks like a minimum of: ♠AQxxxx ♥x ♦x ♣AKxxx

Whether or not we have to play 5♣ or can get out in 4♣ on a misfit where 3N isn't appealing is another issue.
"Phil" on BBO
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#17 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 16:25

Forcing, but 2C is not forcing.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#18 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 17:36

FrancesHinden, on Feb 13 2008, 10:32 PM, said:

I agree with gnasher. It doesn't sound forcing to me.

How many non-forcing ways do we need to get out to clubs?

2♣ NF

3♣ Forcing

seems perfectly reasonable and sensible to me.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#19 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 17:39

Cascade, on Feb 14 2008, 12:36 AM, said:

How many non-forcing ways do we need to get out to clubs?

I don't think anyone suggested 3C was a way to "get out". The idea is that 2C is weak, 3C is invitational, and pass followed by 3C is forcing.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#20 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-February-13, 17:47

Isn't weak already invitational? How strong is an invitational hand opposite a redouble?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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