BBO Discussion Forums: Pass Or Pull? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Pass Or Pull?

Poll: Pass or Pull? (24 member(s) have cast votes)

Pass or Pull?

  1. Pass (4 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. 4NT (16 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. 5C (4 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   rogerclee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,214
  • Joined: 2007-December-16
  • Location:Pasadena, CA

Posted 2008-January-29, 02:36

All Red, MPs

Scoring: MP

Sitting south, the auction goes:
(1♠)-DBL-(4♠)-P
(P)-DBL-(P)-?
0

#2 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2008-January-29, 02:45

the most clear-cut 4NT ever dood. pd's short in spades, we're short in spades....
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#3 User is offline   rogerclee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,214
  • Joined: 2007-December-16
  • Location:Pasadena, CA

Posted 2008-January-29, 02:50

gwnn, on Jan 29 2008, 03:45 AM, said:

the most clear-cut 4NT ever dood. pd's short in spades, we're short in spades....

Well, I did pull at the table. I think 4N vs 5♣ also isn't that clear.
0

#4 User is offline   655321 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,502
  • Joined: 2007-December-22

Posted 2008-January-29, 03:07

rogerclee, on Jan 29 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

gwnn, on Jan 29 2008, 03:45 AM, said:

the most clear-cut 4NT ever dood. pd's short in spades, we're short in spades....

Well, I did pull at the table. I think 4N vs 5♣ also isn't that clear.

4NT looks right - partner can bid ♣ with equal length in the minors.
But, in practice 5♣ is likely to work just as well.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
0

#5 User is offline   brianshark 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 895
  • Joined: 2006-May-13
  • Location:Dublin
  • Interests:Artificial Intelligence, Computer Games, Satire, Football, Rugby... and Bridge I suppose.

Posted 2008-January-29, 03:11

I don't see why you don't just bid your 5 card suit instead of making partner clairvoyantly choose between a suit you have 4 to the Q in versus a suit you have 5 to the KJ in. Or am I the only person who can see a 5th club?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
0

#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2008-January-29, 03:47

Partner can have 2 clubs and 4 diamonds.
BridgeGod: my personal website with interactive problems and articles
0

#7 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-January-29, 03:48

brianshark, on Jan 29 2008, 04:11 AM, said:

I don't see why you don't just bid your 5 card suit instead of making partner clairvoyantly choose between a suit you have 4 to the Q in versus a suit you have 5 to the KJ in. Or am I the only person who can see a 5th club?

Because partner could have a lot of shapes, such as 2452, 3442, etc. Becuase if you bid 4N you will never get to the wrong fit given that you would rather find a 4-4 than a 5-3. If partner has equal length in the minors he will bid 5C, if he doesn't he won't. It's not a very hard concept to understand. 4N is absolutely 100 % clear if you are going to bid, and I think bidding is fairly clear.
0

#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,038
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-January-29, 04:28

Hi,

Pass, but if you dont pass, than 4NT is clear
cut, at least you improve the chance that you
reach the correct contract.

Personnally I would pass, ... but dont mind 4NT,
if we pass, we will most likely go plus, which is
not so clear, if we try to play a contract on the
5 level.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#9 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2008-January-29, 05:28

4NT seems canonical :)
0

#10 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,399
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2008-January-29, 06:11

Jlall, on Jan 29 2008, 11:48 AM, said:

Because partner could have a lot of shapes, such as 2452, 3442, etc.

I would be disappointed if p had three spades. But agree with the rest of the reasoning, 4N is obvious.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#11 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-January-29, 06:40

helene_t, on Jan 29 2008, 07:11 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 29 2008, 11:48 AM, said:

Because partner could have a lot of shapes, such as 2452, 3442, etc.

I would be disappointed if p had three spades. But agree with the rest of the reasoning, 4N is obvious.

I would be too but it is not some kind of lock that the opponents have 10 spades for 1S X 4S. It is very common to bid 4S with 6-4 and 5-4-4 or a few 5-4-3-1's seem possible as well
0

#12 User is offline   Apollo81 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,162
  • Joined: 2006-July-10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 2008-January-29, 09:08

I'd pull to 4N. For those that put stock in the law of total tricks, it seems to support this decision as partner's average spade length will be about 1.8 here.
0

#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,727
  • Joined: 2006-June-05
  • Location:Oslo, Norway
  • Interests:Bridge, sports, Sci-fi, fantasy

Posted 2008-January-29, 10:55

4NT seems more or less automatic to me.
Kind regards,
Harald
0

#14 User is offline   brianshark 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 895
  • Joined: 2006-May-13
  • Location:Dublin
  • Interests:Artificial Intelligence, Computer Games, Satire, Football, Rugby... and Bridge I suppose.

Posted 2008-January-31, 07:53

While I'm now convinced that 4NT is better than 5♣ for most shapes of minors that partner can have, I'm curious why you all believe partner will bid ♣s if he has equal length in the minors. Surely 4N asks partner to bid his better minor and doesn't that mean with equal length, he will choose the one he has strength in rather than automatically ♣s? ♦AKx ahead of ♣Qxx, etc?
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
0

#15 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,399
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2008-January-31, 08:39

brianshark, on Jan 31 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

While I'm now convinced that 4NT is better than 5♣ for most shapes of minors that partner can have, I'm curious why you all believe partner will bid ♣s if he has equal length in the minors. Surely 4N asks partner to bid his better minor and doesn't that mean with equal length, he will choose the one he has strength in rather than automatically ♣s? ♦AKx ahead of ♣Qxx, etc?

5♣ gives you the option of converting to 5♦ (whatever that means). Probably a conversion to 5♦ would mean that you have both red suits. If p bids 5♦ and you convert to 5♥ to show hearts and clubs, p cannot go back to clubs. So at least with 2344 it is clear he should bid 5♣. With 1444 it seems not to matter, but if you agree also to bid 5♣ with that hand, it makes your decision to bid 4N easier.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#16 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2008-January-31, 08:40

brianshark, on Jan 31 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

Surely 4N asks partner to bid his better minor and doesn't that mean with equal length, he will choose the one he has strength in rather than automatically ♣s? ♦AKx ahead of ♣Qxx, etc?

No, your concern should not be getting to the stronger of 2 8 card fits (which will rarely matter, and sometimes when it does matter it's because you should be in the WEAKER one anyways), your concern should be with getting to your longer fit as often as possible with 2 unequal fits.
0

#17 User is offline   MickyB 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,290
  • Joined: 2004-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 2008-January-31, 08:46

Obvious 4NT. More interesting question with ♦+♣ reversed.
0

#18 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,038
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-January-31, 09:07

brianshark, on Jan 31 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

While I'm now convinced that 4NT is better than 5♣ for most shapes of minors that partner can have, I'm curious why you all believe partner will bid ♣s if he has equal length in the minors. Surely 4N asks partner to bid his better minor and doesn't that mean with equal length, he will choose the one he has strength in rather than automatically ♣s? ♦AKx ahead of ♣Qxx, etc?

Hi,

first of all 4NT asks partner to bid his longest
minor.
In the given auction partner may well be bal.,
and he certainly did not promise 44 in the minors.
4NT will ensure, that you reach a 8 card fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users