[hrothgar]

Partner and I are going to be playing against a pair using a modified version of Romex in the GNT finals. I want to make sure that we have some appropriate defenses in place versus their opening structure.

Here are the bids that we need to deal with

1. Mini NT showing approximately 10-12 HCP
2. 2D = ~ 17 - 19 Balanced
3. 1C = Clubs or balanced 15-16 count
4. 1D = Diamonds or a balanced 13 - 14 count

Of these, I'm most worried about the mini NT. I need a good defense that includes a penalty double. Recommendations are more than welcome.


Here's what I am planning versus the 2D opening and the Conventional 1C/1D openings.

Over 2♦

Disrupt their methods

3♦ = Diamonds and Hearts
3♣ = Clubs and Hearts
2N = Single suited
2♠ = Spades
2♥ = Majors
X = Spades and a Minor

Over 1♣ and 1♦

Disrupt their methods holding distributional weak hands. Ensure constructive bidding with good hands.

Strong hands start with a forcing 1 level overcall. Step is either natural or strong and balanced. Weak hands start with either double or by bidding 1N+

Since the 1m openings are conventional, transfer advances are permitted and will be used after one level overcalls.

Over 1♣

3♥ = Majors
3♦ = Diamonds
3♣ = Minors
2N = Clubs or (Diamonds and a Major)
2♠ = Spades
2♥ = Hearts
2♦ = Diamonds and Hearts
2♣ = Clubs and Hearts
1N = Spades and a minor
1♠ = Spades (forcing)
1♥ = Hearts (forcing)
1♦ = Diamonds (forcing) or balanced
X = Both majors

[CSGibson]

Are you allowed to play Mid-Chart conventions? If so, I'd play a modified suction:

X = penalty
2♣ = ♦ or ♥ & ♠ or ♠ & ♦
2♦ = ♥ or ♠ & ♣
2♥ = ♠ or ♣ & ♦
2♠ = ♣ or ♦ & ♥
2N = ♣ & ♥

responses are pass or correct at all levels (For example, over a 2♦ bid, if you had good hearts and better spades than clubs, you'd respond an appropriate number of spades, like playing multi),

3 of suit bid is limit raise or better for every combination

NT response is a relay to clubs, says that you don't care what they have, you know where you want to play.

[hrothgar]

CSGibson, on Jan 22 2008, 05:29 PM, said:

Are you allowed to play Mid-Chart conventions? If so, I'd play a modified suction:

X = penalty
2♣ = ♦ or ♥ & ♠ or ♠ & ♦
2♦ = ♥ or ♠ & ♣
2♥ = ♠ or ♣ & ♦
2♠ = ♣ or ♦ & ♥
2N = ♣ & ♥

responses are pass or correct at all levels (For example, over a 2♦ bid, if you had good hearts and better spades than clubs, you'd respond an appropriate number of spades, like playing multi),

3 of suit bid is limit raise or better for every combination

NT response is a relay to clubs, says that you don't care what they have, you know where you want to play.

You can pretty much play any defense you want over the opponent's conventional openings.

With this said and done, I dislike Suction type methods. When you make forcing bids you give the opponents far to many chances to bid.

If you look at the defense that I proposed, most bids are natural

If you bid 2♣ you promise length in Clubs
If you bid 2♥ you promise length in Hearts
If you bid 3♦ you promise length in Diamonds.

In turn, this allows partner to pass most of your calls. It also places responder under a lot of pressure.

[david_c]

I'm surprised that you feel the need to change your system so dramatically for minor-suit openings which are really not that unusual. I'd be playing standard methods against 1♣ / 1♦, and my normal weak NT defence against the mini. The fact that 1♣ and 1♦ are marginally less descriptive than standard openings is exploited well enough by normal overcalls; you can overcall slightly more aggressively (particularly at the 2-level) if you want.

[Gerben42]

Quote

1. Mini NT showing approximately 10-12 HCP
2. 2D = ~ 17 - 19 Balanced
3. 1C = Clubs or balanced 15-16 count
4. 1D = Diamonds or a balanced 13 - 14 count

Not to worry about #2.

About #1, follow Sabine's advice and don't take out 1NT on marginal hands. Otherwise I think your regular Multi Landy (Woolsey) will do fine. Discuss what you do on escape sequences, I like the XXX convention.

1st X: points
2nd X: take out
3rd X: penalty

Dbl of NF Stayman, and transfers show a good hand and are NOT for the lead.

About the short 1m openings, I play that whenever responder bids a suit, that suit becomes the cuebid instead of the opened suit. For a negative dbl of a major suit overcall, the other major counts as bid by the opponents, i.e.

1♣* pass 1♥ 1NT = ♠ and a minor, Raptor
1♣* 1♠ Dbl 2♥ = Cuebid
1♣* 1♠ Dbl 2♣ = Natural

etc.

P.S. Our 6th league match (in 2.5 weeks) will be against a team playing a 10-12 NT 1st 2nd NV too.

[MFA]

I would recommend just to play bridge and skip the fancy stuff.

Vs 1mi opening:
Take it as a natural opening. It's their problem that they can't trust the suit they have opened. This is a big downside for them in competitive auctions. Your focus is to play your game and know what you are doing.

Vs 2♦:
Natural overcalls, 2NT could be minors, X majors.
Bids such as "2NT any one-suiter" are counterproductive. Either the bad guys doubles to find out, or they they don't care and just bid on, and your side is having the problem of not knowing the suit.

Vs miniNT:
X= penalty, around 13/14+. Take-out doubles of their escapes.
Then your normal NT defense that you are used to. Bids are somewhat constructive, perhaps 10-14 or so. X+bid is stronger.

NB.

Quote

Since the 1m openings are conventional, transfer advances are permitted...

omg. Please don't tell me that transfer advances (such as (1♣)-1♠-(pass)-2♦ = hearts) usually are restricted in ACBL??!

[cherdano]

I don't like your defense against their 1m openings at all. Normal 1M overcalls cause a lot of problems for these openings, and it pays to be able to make this bid as often as possible. What do you want to bid with KJ8xx xxx xx KJx over their 1m opening? I assume you want to bid 2♠, but I would maintain that their method is so bad for competitive auctions that you shouldn't allow to regain some advantage by playing for penalties against this run-of-the-mill hand. Just bidding 1♠ on hands like this is enough of a winner IMO.

I don't mind your defense against 2♦, but obviously these are bids you should use very rarely.

[MFA]

... and what Gerben said about doubles after miniNT-stayman and miniNT-transfers.

[Apollo81]

You should definitely defend their 1m openings as Standard because they will be the same as Standard almost all the time.

Any defense that includes a penalty double over their 1NT is fine.

I wouldn't frivolously interfere over that 2♦ if I were you since it shows a big balanced hand. It will be easy for them to punish such interference.

[hrothgar]

Apollo81, on Jan 22 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

You should definitely defend their 1m openings as Standard because they will be the same as Standard almost all the time.

One important comment:

Traditional overcall structures are constrained by the GCC. This means:

No canape overcalls on three card suits
No transfer advances
No conventional defenses (other than 1NT overcalls)

I don't think that standard overcalls are particularly good. To me, the critical issue about these 1♣/1♦ openings is not the precise definition of the bid, but rather the fact that they are convention so I get to play anything that I like.

I'm fairly happy with the definitions of the bids from 1N up. However, I am still debating what to do with X, 1♥, and 1♠. If I play a more comprehensive canape overcall style, I'll probably need to redesign some of the higher level bids as well...

[cherdano]

Well if you want to have fun then go all crazy...but if you would like to win you should really play 1♠ over 1m as showing 5+ spades, not forcing, IMO

[gwnn]

Why don't you throw in 2♥/3♥ multi, just for laughs (vs 1m, NV)?

[pclayton]

Do I read this right? You want to play forcing overcalls over a nebulous 1♣?

I think using a Raptor 1N overcall over their 1♣ makes a lot of sense, or use two-level calls as two-suiters as if RHO opened 1N. A Woolsey variation looks like fun and seems playable (and legal):

1N = 5 minor / 4 major
2♣ = Majors
2♦ = One major
2♥ / 2♠ = 5 major + minor.

I'd tighten up the 1 level overcalls over 1♣ when you are vul, since a strong NT is a common hand. You aren't getting a lead director in, and you are steering them away from NT when you will frequently be on lead. Occasionally, your overcall will get punished too.

Transfer Advances after overcalls are GCC and have been since 2002.

Practice a LOT online against a 10-12 NT. You need to get a very good feeling about what kind of hands to jump in with, and when you are making a forcing pass. I'm sure one of us would happy to be the guinea pig in a partnership bidding room to help you out. If I'm online and you want to practice with your pard, flag me down.

[FrancesHinden]

I've played a mini for years (admittedly only first NV) and here's my advice in defending against it:

1. Don't go mad. Some people seem to take the 10-12 opening as an incitement to act. If you come in too light you will be extracted from. Some of the juiciest penalties I have taken have been after starting with a mini. In particular, keep the direct seat penalty doubles up to strength (minimum of a balanced 15-count, obviously more distributional hands might bid differently). Accept that the mini is a volatile weapon and sometimes you will get a bad result.

2. Play double of an artificial 2-level response (Stayman or transfer) as strong balanced - a hand that would have doubled 1NT for penalties (wot Gerben said).

3. Play double of a 1NT opening by a passed hand as balanced or semi-balanced with a maximum pass. This doesn't sound like a very sound idea but it works fantastically well (you concede the odd 380 of course).

4. Have your agreements about continuations after a penalty double very clear. I have preferred methods (see below), but far more importantly is to discuss it all in detail: when is pass forcing; when is double penalties; what bids are forcing, invitational, weak...

One possible set of agreements which I find works well is much the same as Gerben's:

a) After 1NT x 2 suit natural, or showing a 2-suiter including the suit bid:

x = "take-out" from either side (take-out means that you would pass a penalty double, it can be quite off-shape compared to a normal take-out double)
pass = forcing over 2minor, non-forcing over 2-major
2NT = lebensohl over 2M (arguable over 2D)
immediate bid = weak if pass would be forcing, constructive NF if pass is non-forcing
immediate jump = forcing
passs-then-bid over the double = NF but constructive, uinwilling to defend

After 1NT x artificial bid (e.g. a transfer, or 2C stayman, or 2D showing the majors etc)
pass = weak, no forcing pass
double = high cards, sets up a forcing pass at any level (then double of the first natural suit bid is take-out, later x penalties)
bid = weak and distributional
pass-then-bid = more constructive, but not enough to set up a FP

c) if they play xx as strong (1NT - x- xx penalties) agree who pulls: if you trust the opponents not to have psyched the xx, the doubler should pull unless he has the contract off in his own hand. Or you can just play chicken...


5. There are vast numbers of NT defences around. The main thing is to be comfortable with what you are playing, and to know what all the possible continuations are including after intervention. Remember that 3NT on power is a plausible contract your way. On that basis you may be best off playing roughly what you currently play, if that makes sense with changing the value of the double. This is only an example, but I happen to play a defence in which a 2C overcall shows hearts & another suit (possibly both majors with longer spades). I know that if the next hand passes, then among 4th hands options is 2NT natural invite, 3C artificial relay and 3D 3-card heart raise. I know that if the next hand doubles, then
- pass = to play opposite a second suit of clubs
- 2D = to play opposite five diamonds
- xx = I have my own suit, please bid step one.

I know that if the next hand doubles and I pass, then
1NT 2C x P P
redouble = 5 hearts and 4 diamonds
2D = 5+ diamonds and 4 hearts
2H = both majors

I know what x and 2NT mean if the next hand bids.

and so on....

6. Rather than play a 2NT overcall as both minors, it's quite handy to play it as a good 3m overcall and stick to immediate jumps to 3m as weak.

[MFA]

Even if you were able to devise a structure that theoretical is superior to standard (I doubt this very much), then you'll be playing unfamiliar methods, which is a BIG disadvantage for your side. A single annoying convention like multi 2♥ could be ok though.

[hrothgar]

pclayton, on Jan 22 2008, 07:08 PM, said:

Transfer Advances after overcalls are GCC and have been since 2002.

Cool

I hadn't noticed that these were legal until now...

[skjaeran]

hrothgar, on Jan 22 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

pclayton, on Jan 22 2008, 07:08 PM, said:

Transfer Advances after overcalls are GCC and have been since 2002.

Cool

I hadn't noticed that these were legal until now...

ACBL-land is really weird. I'd never dream of transfer advances being illegal in any jurisdiction - except in tourneys for beginners only.

[ASkolnick]

Over 1C,1D not sure why you wouldn't just bid natural.

Over Wk NT, double with top of the range 14+.
What we play is you bid as if you overcalled a NT, since most people's runouts are the same as an opening 1N-Overcall. Play lebensohl, your penalty doubles etc are on.

As for overcalls, we play a simple suction 2C bid and transfers. This way you can raise yourself if you have the one suited hand. We like getting our suit in immediately.

[awm]

My recommendations on the 10-12 NT:

Don't play double in direct seat as "top of their range." This is a good way to get in trouble. Double should show a hand where you really think it's your side's hand -- 15+ is a normal range.

Do double in balancing seat a bit lighter. This is a little safer than it looks because of RHO's pass.

Don't overcall on garbage. This is like "don't preempt over preempts." Partner needs to be able to raise your overcalls when appropriate. A reasonable range is something like 10-15 (better hands start with double). Basically it should not be much lighter than hands you would bid at the two-level over (say) a 1♠ opening.

Do play methods where partner can often pass your overcalls. This puts a lot more pressure on the opponents than playing something like transfers or suction. One of the big issues in competing after your side opens 10-12 1NT is that you kind of want double to be penalty (partner's hand is well-defined, you can't rely on partner to balance, you want to "get the opponents" when they step out of line especially over your 10-12 opens) but you also kind of want double to be takeout (everyone else plays takeout doubles after 1m-overcall and they help you get into the very common competitive auctions when both sides have half the points). Playing an overcall structure where most of your overcalls are transfers or the like basically solves this problem for opponents (gives them direct "cards" double of your artificial call to go with pass-then-double for takeout).

Don't play "notrump systems on after double." Notrump systems are designed to find the best game. The vast majority of hands that make game after partner's double are passing 1NTX anyway. Also, the double doesn't show a balanced hand by any means -- one of the big advantages of the strength-showing double is that it puts an upper limit on your two-level overcalls (allowing partner to pass more often and put more pressure on). If the auction begins with 1NT-X-Pass and pass is "to play" then natural weak bids are definitely to be recommended.

Make sure to have an agreement about what happens after 1NT-X and opponents run to a suit. I like the first double to be takeout and passes to be NF, but it doesn't matter that much what you play as long as you both know what you play.

[dake50]

Fouts Overcall Structure vs their 1m openings. Get to 3-level before they can sort out their cases.
Only M-game oriented need act immediately over 1N(10-12). Reopening to find M/m partials or better.
The Mexican 2D has already taken their space for bal hands teammates will bid well.