[Codo]

Rossoneri, on Nov 23 2007, 06:03 PM, said:

Any idea how are the countries selected in the pots?

They chose the results of the qualification rounds for the WC 2006 and EC 2008. So if you do great in these qualifiers but lost early in the WC you are higher seeded then someone who struggled to the WC but made a great job there.

AS Germany did not need to qualify for WC 2006, they must have used something to equalisze this.

[geller]

From the BBC Home page, here are the standings in qualifying group D of the UEFA Champions League, with one round (Dec 5) to go.

Quote

UEFA Champions League : Group D Table
28 November 2007 21:39
                                    P W D L F A GD PTS
1 AC Milan                      5 3 1 1 11 5 6 10
2 Celtic                          5 3 0 2 5 5 0 9
3 Shakhtar Donetsk          5 2 0 3 5 9 -4 6
4 Benfica                        5 1 1 3 3 5 -2 4

AC Milan have sealed their place in the last 16 and a draw at home to Celtic in the last game will take them through in first place. A draw would also take Celtic through, but if the Scots lose in Milan, they will miss out on the knockout stages if Shakhtar beat Benfica at home.

That would leave Celtic and Shakhtar on nine points, but the Ukrainians would go through on head-to-head having beaten Celtic 2-0 at home and lost only 2-1 at Parkhead. Celtic will top the group if they win in the San Siro.

As explained by the BBC, if Celtic and AC Milan draw, both qualify (this is worth about $20MUS to each team).

I'm predicting a 0-0 draw. Any takers?

[Gerben42]

A 1 - 1 pleases the fans and silences the critics, so I predict that. The Denmark - Norway match in the last world cup even ended in 2 - 2.

[gwnn]

geller, on Nov 30 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

From the BBC Home page, here are the standings in qualifying group D of the UEFA Champions League, with one round (Dec 5) to go.

Quote

UEFA Champions League : Group D Table
28 November 2007 21:39
                                    P W D L F A GD PTS
1 AC Milan                      5 3 1 1 11 5 6 10
2 Celtic                          5 3 0 2 5 5 0 9
3 Shakhtar Donetsk          5 2 0 3 5 9 -4 6
4 Benfica                        5 1 1 3 3 5 -2 4

AC Milan have sealed their place in the last 16 and a draw at home to Celtic in the last game will take them through in first place. A draw would also take Celtic through, but if the Scots lose in Milan, they will miss out on the knockout stages if Shakhtar beat Benfica at home.

That would leave Celtic and Shakhtar on nine points, but the Ukrainians would go through on head-to-head having beaten Celtic 2-0 at home and lost only 2-1 at Parkhead. Celtic will top the group if they win in the San Siro.

As explained by the BBC, if Celtic and AC Milan draw, both qualify (this is worth about $20MUS to each team).

I'm predicting a 0-0 draw. Any takers?

It's not that clear. This is quite different from the time Arsenal and Porto drew 0-0, cause they both put their qualification in danger.

[Walddk]

Gerben42, on Nov 30 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

A 1 - 1 pleases the fans and silences the critics, so I predict that. The Denmark - Norway match in the last world cup even ended in 2 - 2.

Corrections
1. Denmark vs Sweden it was.
2. European Championships 2004 in Portugal.

Roland

[han]

gwnn, on Nov 22 2007, 02:35 AM, said:

BTW no offense Gerben+Han, but Holland aren't all that better than the other 3 in the top favorites pool

No offense taken, I'm not on the team. Maybe Gerben is.

[Gerben42]

Quote

1. Denmark vs Sweden it was.
2. European Championships 2004 in Portugal.

Right Well 1 out of 3 ain't bad... Oh it is? Sorry!

Quote

No offense taken, I'm not on the team. Maybe Gerben is.

Nah, I'm not playing either The Dutch football team always seems to manage to combine great individual players to a suboptimal team. Don't know why that is, though...

[hotShot]

Gerben42, on Nov 30 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

Nah, I'm not playing either The Dutch football team always seems to manage to combine great individual players to a suboptimal team. Don't know why that is, though...

Have you ever tried to sail a ship with captains only?

It works better is you have a few sailors too.

[Walddk]

The worst example of cheating (diplomats call it coincidental pre-arranged deal) occurred on June 25, 1982, during the World Cup in Gijon, Spain. Last match in Qualifying, Group 2, West Germany vs Austria.

The Germans needed a 1-0 win and both nations would advance. Coincidentally, West Germany scored early in the match. The last 84 minutes? Well, no contest since all play took place in midfield. Not once did any striker come close to the opponents' penalty area.

As far as I recall, one German commentator on national TV refused to comment and left his seat in disgust.

Roland

[Aberlour10]

hotShot, on Nov 30 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

Gerben42, on Nov 30 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

Nah, I'm not playing either The Dutch football team always seems to manage to combine great individual players to a suboptimal team. Don't know why that is, though...

Have you ever tried to sail a ship with captains only?

It works better is you have a few sailors too.

There were always great captains in Dutch team, enough great sailors too, the problem was quite often.... they worked together like a "team" from H.M.S Bounty....

Robert

[skjaeran]

Aberlour10, on Nov 30 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

hotShot, on Nov 30 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

Gerben42, on Nov 30 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

Nah, I'm not playing either The Dutch football team always seems to manage to combine great individual players to a suboptimal team. Don't know why that is, though...

Have you ever tried to sail a ship with captains only?

It works better is you have a few sailors too.

There were always great captains in Dutch team, enough great sailors too, the problem was quite often.... they worked together like a "team" from H.M.S Bounty....

Robert

Captain Bligh was a great sailor, but probably not a great leader. If the Dutch captains have been of the same kind it's probably natural for the team to be suboptimal.

[blackshoe]

Bligh's leadership style might well be questioned, but he was not the tyrant most people today think he was. Aside from that, he was a damn good sailor.

He navigated a severely overloaded open boat over 3,600 miles of the Pacific Ocean to safety in Timor, losing only one man (to a native attack at Tofua). He had only a sextant and a pocket watch, no compass or charts. This was a very remarkable, almost an incredible, feat. Seven months after his returned to England, he was acquitted of any wrong-doing by a court-martial. A month later he took command of another ship, and ten more after that in his career, which spanned an additional 27 years, including a period as governor of New South Wales. In 1814, he was promoted to Vice Admiral. He died in London three years later. He was a Lieutenant at the time of the Bounty mutiny.

I'd say Bligh was unlucky: he was involved in three more mutinies in his career: Spithead, Nore, and the Rum Rebellion when he was governor of NSW.

He was also instrumental in Nelson's victory at Copenhagen, because Bligh was the only one of Nelson's captains who could see both Nelson's signal to continue the battle, and Admiral Parker's signal to stop fighting, to which Nelson had famously held his telescope to his blind eye, saying "I see no signal". Bligh elected to fly Nelson's signal rather than Parker's in his own ship, thus ensuring the battle would continue to the eventual British victory.

[jtfanclub]

blackshoe, on Nov 30 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

I'd say Bligh was unlucky: he was involved in three more mutinies in his career: Spithead, Nore, and the Rum Rebellion when he was governor of NSW.

What about the Porpoise?

The Bastard from the Bounty had to be one of the least liked officers in the HMS Navy's history, at least from ahis subordinate's point of view. No matter how competent you are, if you're put in a leadership position and the people you're supposed to lead hate your guts, you aren't going to succeed.

Which might apply to Holland foosball....

[blackshoe]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

What about the Porpoise?

I don't know, what about her?

Quote

The Bastard from the Bounty had to be one of the least liked officers in the HMS Navy's history, at least from ahis subordinate's point of view. No matter how competent you are, if you're put in a leadership position and the people you're supposed to lead hate your guts, you aren't going to succeed.

I suspect that first assertion is a serious overbid. As for the second, I don't think that a naval career spanning forty plus years and including command of 11 ships, three of them 74 gun ships of the line (the largest in the RN of the time), can be called a failure. Besides, if the RN had considered Bligh a failure, HMS Bligh (K467), a WWII Captain's Class frigate, would have had a different name.

[gwnn]

ugh for romania. but who knows?

[Gerben42]

I feel sorry for the Italians... Losing out in the group stage of the Euros as defending world champs.

[skjaeran]

Gerben42, on Dec 2 2007, 09:02 PM, said:

I feel sorry for the Italians... Losing out in the group stage of the Euros as defending world champs.

Nice for the Romanians though.

[Aberlour10]

Germany had as ever pretty fortunate draft, I think, they did not become a "deadly" group once in the last 100 years

Robert

[Codo]

Maybe the dutch should be very proud of what they won at football. Despite being a tiny country with about 30.000 inhabitants they are really a big number in football. They had more successthen russia, england, spain in the last 40 years. This is more then remarkably and someting to be quite proud of.

[Gerben42]

Quote

Maybe the dutch should be very proud of what they won at football. Despite being a tiny country with about 30.000 inhabitants they are really a big number in football. They had more successthen russia, england, spain in the last 40 years. This is more then remarkably and someting to be quite proud of.

We are But as usual when you win you want to win MORE!

But as a Bridge player I am more proud of the Bridge achievements of my country. And hockey of course.

Funny thing, I've never cared about football until I moved to football-mad Germany. It seems to me that football is on TV every single day.