[Gweny]

What do you think?

Do TDs need some form of experience on BBO prior to ability to direct alone?

[Gweny]

PS vote please... else we no idea what you think... if poll do not reflect what you think is ok then please add comment :-)

[mr1303]

I voted for anyone can direct whenever they want to

People don't direct tourneys for payment, they do it for the love of the game. If we put restrictions on who can and can't direct, we'll be short of directors. Simple as that.

[hrothgar]

Comment 1:

I am opposed to centralized/formalized requirements regarding who should direct and who shouldn't. I think that its better to allow anyone who wants to direct do so and allow reputations to take care of the rest.

With this said and done, I think that it would be a good idea for novice directors to "apprentice" themselves, as not to risk early mistakes. However, I see no reason to force this on anyone.

[spwdo]

hi,


well everybody can direct but how about the zillion questions we get for how do you make adjustment , how this , how that, and we very friendly people who explain time and time again , i remeber one time i just explained how to make an adjust when that td adjusted a spychic bid to A-, the yellow who im reffering to will know, and how about the scheduled, all criss cross hosting without without knowing what problems are, mostplayers dont care but when they are in a tourney and there is no sub avaible we seem to care or how about the several times a td coud not coope and left or didnt show after creating it , leaving douzens of players angry in bbo , if we only get an obligated adjustment clinic and some training all of this shoud end very , today meeting , 6 question private messages about what i had to say about pyschic, lots more about how the adjust(proper synthax) when i replied to several saying , maybe good thing that u read mail from uday, they all replied: what mail? i shoud actually read that they ask. this not making rules for new tds will result in tds coming in and nowhere to turn to causing lot of unsatisfiying players . this is shared bye vast majority of tds that are hosting for some time. these tourneys are one of the atractions of bbo. not enough td on bbo is a concern?dodnt know if some would like to see even more tourney or better cooperations between the td that are priviliged to do so(now u see 5-6 tourneys going on the same time, not talking about special ones topflight,bil,abalucys ) just same tourneys going on in the same time period .Well also consider this:some of the experienced td cant coope with the flood of new ones the way it is going now and complain about this. its not fun to see 2 tourneys starting minutes before yours (problem with signups ,all"fischy" for the same subs) and i think they (experienced td) have to have some saying in this as well considering how much they donated already.


greetings marc

[bglover]

As I have already personally told Spwdo, I will gladly hold a directing seminar for novice directors if there is a demand for it.

All I ask is that someone else do the organizing as far as rounding up participants. I will gladly cover both the mechanics of using the software re directing and the types of judgment calls people will encounter and how I think (there are not hard and fast rules) they should be handled and why.

I already spend a fair amount of time each week privately answering these types of questions from newer directors and am glad to offer my help. To get everyone together in a chat room and do it all at one time would just make it easier.

Perhaps Gweny would like to help organize as she is already doing work viz the BBO_Td's pages. Or, alternatively, I would be glad to write an article on "Judgment calls" for posting either here or at Gweny's site.

[Gweny]

TD101 is available for new tds to learn create tournament interface.

It is available at
TD101 - Short presentation to learn BBO Create Tournament interface

[Frosty]

I think the question of how new TD's should get started is good one. I appreciate Gwen starting the ball rolling with the poll, even though I didn't find the answer I liked best in the choices. I think I agree in priniciple with much that has been stated by previous posts, i.e.:

1) with rare exceptions, I think anyone who would like to Direct should be given a chance to try

2) I don't think new TD's should be able to Direct without training

3) I do think the following would give the new TD the BEST opportunity to succeed:
- new TD's should be required to complete TD101
- new TD's should be assigned an experienced TD who speaks the same language to be the new TD's Mentor
- if the new TD is an experienced or certified Director, skip right to the next step, otherwise the new TD should complete a clinic on making score adjustments
- new TD's should complete a series of tournaments as a Co-Director before attempting to fly solo. Every new TD will have unique needs, learning skills and previous experience - so the number of times the new TD needs to Co-Direct will be different for each person. The Mentor and Lead-Directors that the new TD works with will best be able to assess when the new TD is ready to move on.
- the new TD should be required to have experienced backup for the first few tournaments that he/she schedules. Again - the readiness for solo Directing is different for each person.

Finally, one's role as a TD at BBO should not be taken lightly. TD's who do not contribute to the efforts in some way - and there are many many ways to contribute - should be asked to take another look at whether they really want to be TD's.

[Gweny]

267 people look at this topic and only 37 vote?
tee hee

[inquiry]

Gweny, on Feb 18 2004, 12:32 AM, said:

267 people look at this topic and only 37 vote?
tee hee

Not everyone "view" is a unique person. When there is a new post, people who have read the topic before come back and re-read it, each revisit increments the number of views. Also people who find this by thread by the most recent entry might not reailze that it is a poll... That is, if you clicked on my entry to this thread rather than the original entry (the title of the thread essentially), you may easily miss the poll all together. IT might HELP if we include the word "poll" in the title so that people joining a thread will realize there is room to vote in it if you bounce to the top of the thread.

I myself have visited this topic at least five times to read the new replies, and this is my second reply in this thread. I have only voted once... however.

Ben

[Rain]

I vote for

"View TD 101", then "do a short and easy but important/relevant quiz", then "co-direct once"


Rain

[csdenmark]

I like the open approach from BBO to let all do what they think they can handle themselves. I have seen several TD's informing they are running their first tourney - and I think that is a fair information.

I would like to see the TD's open their tourney's. All those restrictions mostly reflects inability to handle the job they have enterprised. - For that some kind of help is needed - as an option!

[ecepal]

hi,
If I may say few things, of course options are endless , good thing but when you are at the other hand how does these options fit that is another question.when you listen all the complaints that is another issue,
personnally I think people who want to be a TD must have some kind of education,
ie: simple adjustments,basic rules etc..
if they want to learn more about directing and be good TD then they can choose to improve their knowledge,
when you are dealing with screaming ,angry , frustrated clientelle i am sorry but i do not agree with people who says anyone can be the TD ..
we are all humans we make mistakes but we can eliminate these mistakes and prevent unpleasant athmosphere and by this way everyone will be happy.
thanks
ecepal

[Trpltrbl]

Why chance the rules I have noticed that most directors are at best intermediate players, and many have not done any kinda of directing in real life with all kinds of problems arising from, what is Zero Tolernace and what to do etc. I have no problem with that for now, but when BBO allow people that charge for tourneys I do think that people that do that should be directors in real life and have at least a good grip of the game. Maybe ACBL directors or being able to pass at least the test for that. When I direct I use the rules of 1997 Laws of duplicate contract bridge as a guideline.

Mike

[Frosty]

You're right Mike - a large percentage of the volunteer TD's (myself included) can accurately be described as "average" bridge players. I've observed with interest (and some participation) the phenomenon of volunteerism on several online bridge sites over the past few years. Almost without exception, enthusiasm overcomes the lack of experience and credentials.

For the past 6-7 weeks, I've been responsible for compiling and updating a membership list for the BBO TD's Coalition. You would not be surprised to learn that a very high percentage of the TD community are not certified by any bridge entity. What might surprise you is that the TD's who do have credentials actually schedule/run very few tournaments. Perhaps they are waiting to be involved in Paid events - I don't know. I DO know that the tournament schedule at BBO, which has grown from infancy to a very full slate rather quickly, is the result of robust volunteerism.

The concept of providing some basic training to new/inexperienced TD's is only adding common sense to enthusiasm. Why not give that volunteer a chance to be successful right out of the box? As ecepal has pointed out - everyone benefits from this approach.

Frosty/Jan

[spwdo]

hi,


just looked at the votes, if not mistaken +- 70% of all votes are in favour of monitoring new tds, at leasts 1 upto 10 times with some form of training(adjusting clinic also mentioned,or take a test) as seen several time in the replies.

can we also conclude that a majority of voters also are already td? since this is atopic in the tdforum, it was mentioned several times on diffrent meetings and it concerns all tds and interested parties.


can we therefore conclude that +-70% of excisting tds (knowing what it means to start from zip) are in favour of some obligated course to follow before recieving possiblity to host single?



greetings marc

[Frosty]

I come to the same conclusions as Marc does - the majority of poll participants see merit in providing some guidance to new TD's. For the most part, this guidance is already available thanks to Gwen's TD101 introductory course and the mechanism for TD's to sign up to mentor new TD's (www.bridgebase.com/tourneyschedule/).

All signs point to the fact that - although some may be reluctant to add structure to what has evolved very well without structure - the recent efforts to organize the tourney schedule and help new TD's is an asset to BBO and to the TD community as a whole.

Kudos!

Frosty/Jan

PS - really I just want to graduate from being a novice poster LOL!

[etherwiz]

I am in favor of voluntary mentoring. But not required.

The danger of requirements is that it starts to evolve into control – and that statement is for the people who believe that requirements can be imposed with out controls. I mean no disrespect for anyone when I write that.

There are some people who believe they can start requirements for TD’s, and still let the TD’s conduct their own games. There is a significant danger in that. Right now members of BBO can play in any tournament they care to, if they dislike the way one is run they can simply avoid that particular director.

Now generally we as TD’s believe that adjustments are needed and sometimes justified. But even directors who agree that an adjustment is needed might not agree with one certain adjustment. In a broad view, just look at the people who agree/disagree with the average adjustments automated when a hand time outs and does not complete.

I think the philosophy of BBO includes a wide variety. And that also includes tournaments. The minute we impose certain requirements means that certain people might impose their values on adjustments made and maybe even the people who should be allowed to play. This danger is reduced greatly if the people making those judgments admit that it is possible to carry this too far and to watch out for teaching becoming preaching.

It sometimes starts out accidentally, just the Teachers saying what they would do in certain circumstances, and then those actions become the law. There is a reason that BBO did not totally eliminate the Redo from Tournaments. For example, should TD’s teach new TD’s not to allow Redo’s.just because sometimes the refusal of a redo can create distribution at a table. Perhaps that distribution would have happened anyway, as I have found that the same people seam to cause most of the troubles I have directing.

Maybe pretty soon the Tourneys for Fun will have to stop because TD’s will be expected to perform adjustments and not allowed to say “No Adjustments” in the description?

This may not be a good example of what I am saying, as I tend to carry my examples and allegories to the extreme. They do not call me a Fire-Preaching Buddhist Fundamentalist for nothing!

As far as mentoring goes, I am in favor of it. Many have asked me to help them start directing tourneys, and I have set up their first and co-directed it with them. Then when they are approved I often co-directed with them until they were sure, or not as they wanted. One way of insuring “proper” TDs would be to require co-directing before they are approved to hold tournaments on their own. Perhaps even easier would be to require an existing TD’s endorsement before allowing them to hold tournaments (enabling the Create Button). This would be simple way to require some direction experience and not imposing certain behaviors on the prospects. Just a thought, the requirement of an endorsement of a TD along with the letter requesting the Create Button.
The TD101 course is great, but should really become the HELP associated with BBO. The adjustments lecture is also great, but needs to be expanded and perhaps more examples of to code an adjustment would be nice.

[spwdo]

hi,


trying to interprete etherwiz replie, i think u in favour too of obligated training for new tds as well if i see the create button u say shoud be inactive before some training had taking place? i think one of the main reasons we ask this because we get a lot of questions from new tds (software handling as well as bridgerelated questions), second concern i think we share (most of us) is a schedule, new tds are not aware. i must add that there is already dont great effort(bbo helpfile, td 101 and so on) but several i know havent read a thing, instaed asking the same questions time and time again, every meeting we hold i see some same coming in asking "how adjust" , this is covered already several times, am i correct to say some take the easy way and ask somebody they know has the asnwers, well i for one am not going to asnwer several of these questions anymore , instead im going to refer to things already there and made with great effort and time spent on it so little effort for new ones is to read it, like most of us do or have done



greetings marc
p.s.
i want to lose my begiiner poster also jan , have only a couple to go lol