[bid_em_up]

pokerbids, on Jun 27 2007, 01:29 AM, said:

“In time, you may notice that the people who tend to frequently vacate hands are from a handful of specific countries (or at least I have). I won't name the countries, but they quickly become obvious. I have simply stopped accepting random players from these countries at my table. Am I missing some good players by doing this? Probably, but it was a solution I can live with “– Bid em up

There is an implication in that post that is unacceptable to me. In a way I think it is unacceptable to many of the people he has named above (if not all of them) for if they believed in it they have the power and authority to disallow members from specific areas. One of the creeds I believe in is “do not discriminate against anyone on the basis of nationality, gender, religious belief and the like” Of course anyone is allowed their freedom here as is the poster and I have no quarrel with him personally disallowing anyone on to his table based on their country of origin (It does sound awful though). I earnestly hope that one of the reasons for the “draw” in here is its very openness and freedom and accessibility to all subject to following generally acceptable codes of conduct. No this is not a forum for discussing social issues but I wanted to make a point of that particular para that even in the context of bridge does reflect an unacceptable (to me) bias. There are many things that irritate one on the bridge table (and sudden departure of playing folks is one of em) but to blame this on people from a handful of countries – I don’t quite see the merit in that. Ultimately this is a fun game, serious but fun isn’t it. And “virtually” meeting folks so easily from across different nations and parts of the globe is part of the fun for me. Saying that I know I probably won’t change anyone’s view on this subject and tomorrow if anyone wants to disallow say “men” from their playing table they can but believe me they will miss half the fun.

You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you wish.

However, I do this simply because it is NOT fun for me to sit at a table and churn through opponents at a rate of 1 new opp every 2-3 hands, if not more often. It is NOT fun for me to see a screen full of ???????????????????????????? every other hand. Maybe you enjoy this, but I do not.

I have found that players from one specific country do this on a higher basis than what would be considered "the norm" for whatever reason. Maybe it is acceptable behavior in their country. However, I do not enjoy it and I will not suffer through it when I do not have to. Been there, done that, too old to put up with it anymore.

I don't do it on the basis of their color, I don't do it on the basis of their religion, and I don't do it on the basis of their gender. I don't even do it on the basis of their nationality, although you may think that it appears that way.

I do it simply because players from this specific country have overwhemingly proven to me that they do not know how to be civil at the bridge table. As you said,

"I earnestly hope that one of the reasons for the “draw” in here is its very openness and freedom and accessibility to all subject to following generally acceptable codes of conduct."

For the most part, members from this country overall have proven, to me at least, that they are not capable of following "acceptable codes of conduct". Granted, this is strictly my own opinion and evaluation of this, somebody elses may be different. I choose not to go thru 100's, if not 1000's, of players to find the few who actually do know how to behave civilly.

If they were to change their behavior, then I would be more inclined to let randoms players from this country sit. Until then, they are still welcome to play on BBO....just somewhere other than my table please.

[jtfanclub]

bid_em_up, on Jun 27 2007, 10:59 AM, said:

I have found that players from one specific country do this on a higher basis than what would be considered "the norm" for whatever reason.

Please keep in mind that the time you're on is also a major factor. The Americans you play with at 3:00 AM New York Time are not likely to be the same type of Americans you play with at 7:00 PM. For one thing, the Americans at 7:00 PM actually have a chance of being both sober and awake.

Catching certain countries around bar closing time can be, um, interesting.

[sceptic]

Quote

So, why are there so many people here?

Because, it is a good site with lots of facilities if you care to try them out, there are some very decent people about and I am sure you will not fail to make friends and find good oppenents, you just need to give it a chance and dont judge it on the MBC at throwing out time.

[pclayton]

pokerbids, on Jun 26 2007, 10:29 PM, said:

“In time, you may notice that the people who tend to frequently vacate hands are from a handful of specific countries (or at least I have). I won't name the countries, but they quickly become obvious. I have simply stopped accepting random players from these countries at my table. Am I missing some good players by doing this? Probably, but it was a solution I can live with “– Bid em up

There is an implication in that post that is unacceptable to me. In a way I think it is unacceptable to many of the people he has named above (if not all of them) for if they believed in it they have the power and authority to disallow members from specific areas. One of the creeds I believe in is “do not discriminate against anyone on the basis of nationality, gender, religious belief and the like” Of course anyone is allowed their freedom here as is the poster and I have no quarrel with him personally disallowing anyone on to his table based on their country of origin (It does sound awful though). I earnestly hope that one of the reasons for the “draw” in here is its very openness and freedom and accessibility to all subject to following generally acceptable codes of conduct. No this is not a forum for discussing social issues but I wanted to make a point of that particular para that even in the context of bridge does reflect an unacceptable (to me) bias. There are many things that irritate one on the bridge table (and sudden departure of playing folks is one of em) but to blame this on people from a handful of countries – I don’t quite see the merit in that. Ultimately this is a fun game, serious but fun isn’t it. And “virtually” meeting folks so easily from across different nations and parts of the globe is part of the fun for me. Saying that I know I probably won’t change anyone’s view on this subject and tomorrow if anyone wants to disallow say “men” from their playing table they can but believe me they will miss half the fun.

So? He can choose to play with whom he wishes. I tend to feel that this becomes a self-perpetuating cycle however, since if you 'believe. certain individuals from a certain country are jerks then anything they say that can remotely interpreted as negative or hostile reinforces one's opinion.

I hardly ever play with or even against gals. Am I sexist? Nope. I do it this because my wife doesnt like it. I hope you dont consider this discrimiatory.

[the hog]

It is NOT fun for me to see a screen full of ???????????????????????????? every other hand. Maybe you enjoy this, but I do not.

I have found that players from one specific country do this on a higher basis than what would be considered "the norm" for whatever reason. Maybe it is acceptable behavior in their country. However, I do not enjoy it and I will not suffer through it when I do not have to. Been there, done that, too old to put up with it anymore.

snipped

I do it simply because players from this specific country have overwhemingly proven to me that they do not know how to be civil at the bridge table. As you said,

snipped

For the most part, members from this country overall have proven, to me at least, that they are not capable of following acceptable codes of conduct.

Come on, Americans are not that bad...

Phil, ok he can play with whomsoever he wishes, however to put that in a post in the context he did is offensive.

[sceptic]

Quote

ok he can play with whomsoever he wishes, however to put that in a post in the context he did is offensive.

it is not offensive, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it, just because someone does not agree with him, does not make it offensive.

[pdmunro]

I want to put in a plug for the Main Bridge Club.

I enjoy playing in the MBC with random opponents. SAYC is my only system.

I am "advanced" and I will play with and against players of any level, but I prefer "advanced/experts".

If a partner asks "Why did you ...?" I have found that the only answer is to say nothing at all and just get on with the next hand.

Yes there are a few occasions when the bridge table in the MBC resembles a pinball machine with all the comings and goings. To my way of thinking, this chaos mirrors bridge itself. One deal we may have 23 points and easily make 3NT. The next hand we are in 3NT with 27 points, and the opponents take the first 5 tricks in their long suit.

I'm going to make up a statistic: The probabilty that 25 points will yield 3NT is about 70% which is about the probablility that the players at a table will be pleasant. One has to remain calm when either the cards or the players don't work out as expected. Let the frustration and anger pass by like a cloud.

[the hog]

sceptic, on Jun 29 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

Quote

ok he can play with whomsoever he wishes, however to put that in a post in the context he did is offensive.

it is not offensive, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it, just because someone does not agree with him, does not make it offensive.

Ok Wayne, if I substituted "Sceptic" or "Wayne" for "this specific country" you would not find this offensive? According to you I am entitled to my opinion.

[helene_t]

bid_em_up, on Jun 26 2007, 05:34 PM, said:

In time, you may notice that the people who tend to frequently vacate hands are from a handful of specific countries (or at least I have).

I think I have friends as well as enemies from all of the major BBO countries. Some are over-represented on both lists, presumably due to time zones and maybe country-specifc tourneys (my guess is that I have relatively many Norwegian friends because of the Scandinavian/Benelux club, and relatively few friends and enemies from France because I can't play in French-speaking tourneys). Maybe a slight over-representing of Chinese and Bulgarians and under-representing of Polish, Dutch and English because of bidding systems but even that may not be significant.

It would surprise me if there was any country-effect on my personal freind/enemy ratio other than maybe the effect of the Scandinavian/Benelux club being a relatively friendly club, which needs not say anything ambout those countries in general, of course. Then again, it might.

It's possible that I have a PC-based unconscious bias towards making friends with people from countries that threaten to become underrepresented on my friends list.

[barmar]

I can understand bid_em_up's opinion. Countries have cultures, and these influence how people behave (hence the stereotypes of "ugly Americans" and "snooty Frenchmen"). And the Internet in general tends to be an environment where rudeness abounds (sociologists and psychologists have done many studies that show this -- the general assumption is that such behavior is usually tempered by visual emotional cues, which are missing online). So if there are cultures that tend towards rudeness, this tendency may be accentuated online.

However, there are also many exceptions. So if you steadfastly refuse to play with anyone from these countries, you'll miss out on the opportunities that Helene has discovered.

[sceptic]

Quote

Ok Wayne, if I substituted "Sceptic" or "Wayne" for "this specific country" you would not find this offensive? According to you I am entitled to my opinion

It would not offend me, but then I am quite thick skinned, if that was his opinion of me, so be it

I still think that whilst he generalises, he has made a non offensive statement, he is also missing out as there are some great people from (what I believe is the country he is on about), but by and large he has a very valid point and I guarentee that he is not in a minority view, amongst the forum posters here ( they probably are a little less open about their opinion though )

also Ron, I respect everyones right to be entitled to an opinion, myself and you are not what I would call shrinking violets

If he said I wont allow the english at my table as I think they are all t*****s or I wont allow africans at the table because they are all black. then that may be offensive, I just do not think what he said is offensive and you do not seem the sort to be offended easily either Ron