[jtfanclub]

How's this?

1♥ 2♦ 2♠ P
3♠ P--- 4♠ P
P

So, I'm about to X, and then I notice says takeout, shows 4+ clubs!!!!

How can it possibly even imagine that could be takeout?

[mgoetze]

jtfanclub, on Jun 1 2007, 02:50 AM, said:

How can it possibly even imagine that could be takeout?

Actually, GIB doesn't do any "imagining" whatsoever.

[Flame]

Can you beat this ?
few days ago i was vul and got something like this:
AJXXX
AKJ
X
AKXX
I opened 1S gibs give me 2H GF, i bid 3H and it then bid 3S, i decided to ask for aces checked that it asks in ♠ and gib shows 3 aces by 5C, i asks for Q of ♠ and gib bid 5NT showing the Q. i then needed the Q of ♥ for 7 else i want to stay in 6, wasnt sure how to bid it, the FD say 6♣/6♦/6♥ are cue bids, i decided to bid 6♣ and hope he bids 6♥ but gib had a different idea, it passed, with a singlton ♣ and fit in both other majors, when the FD say its a cue bid.
1♠ - 2♥
3♥ - 3♠
4NT - 5♣
5♦ - 5NT
6♣ - PASS !!!

[mgoetze]

Flame, on Jun 1 2007, 02:44 PM, said:

I opened 1S gibs give me 2H GF, i bid 3H and it then bid 3S, i decided to ask for aces checked that it asks in ♠ and gib shows 3 aces by 5C, i asks for Q of ♠ and gib bid 5NT showing the Q. i then needed the Q of ♥ for 7 else i want to stay in 6, wasnt sure how to bid it, the FD say 6♣/6♦/6♥ are cue bids, i decided to bid 6♣ and hope he bids 6♥ but gib had a different idea, it passed, with a singlton ♣ and fit in both other majors, when the FD say its a cue bid.

Repeat after me: "GIB is a computer program".

It is not capable of making up bidding agreements on the fly. It will not be able to figure out that you want it to bid 6♥ if it has the Queen. If you bid as if it could figure that sort of thing out, you deserve your bad results.

[pclayton]

Ive played in a few MBT's lately. What amazes me is that GIB's actions are sometimes contrary to the FD explanation.

The card play tends to be good, but sometimes it makes a play from out of the blue.

[Flame]

mgoetze, on Jun 1 2007, 09:40 AM, said:

Flame, on Jun 1 2007, 02:44 PM, said:

I opened 1S gibs give me 2H GF, i bid 3H and it then bid 3S, i decided to ask for aces checked that it asks in ♠ and gib shows 3 aces by 5C, i asks for Q of ♠ and gib bid 5NT showing the Q. i then needed the Q of ♥ for 7 else i want to stay in 6, wasnt sure how to bid it, the FD say 6♣/6♦/6♥ are cue bids, i decided to bid 6♣ and hope he bids 6♥ but gib had a different idea, it passed, with a singlton ♣ and fit in both other majors, when the FD say its a cue bid.

Repeat after me: "GIB is a computer program".

It is not capable of making up bidding agreements on the fly. It will not be able to figure out that you want it to bid 6♥ if it has the Queen. If you bid as if it could figure that sort of thing out, you deserve your bad results.

Do you ever play with gib ?
Playing with Gib you get a FD you can check what a bid Gib made or a Bid you are about to make means. I checked and my bid ment cue bid, and cue bids arent suppose to be passed.

[barmar]

There are a number of places in GIB's bidding system where its bids don't mean what it says they do. The most notorious are when I open 1NT, LHO makes a Cappalletti overcall, they find a suit, and then GIB comes in. The explanation says that it's a weak bid, so I pass, but I've seen it do this with 10-12 HCP and just a 4-card suit, so we missed a cold game.

[nige1]

hotShot, on Apr 25 2007, 02:46 AM, said:

GIB makes a little less than one playing mistake in 3 boards, this is about that what human Experts/World Class player can do.

That confirms my (limited) experience of playing with robots, experts and world-class players on BBO. And GIB seems to be a better bidder.

[Flame]

Another funny bid from yesterday.
non vul against vul, RHO open 2♣ I pass and LHO bids 2♦, partner doubled showing ♦s, RHO bids 2♥. I had 5♦ and a 4 card somewhere else, was thinging of 4♦ maybe even 5♦ but i thought i beter be carfull with gib so i only bid 3♦ (FD explained 3+D), My gib bid 3NT !, it get doubled, i pass and
My gib takes it out to ? 4♦ no 5♦ no 6♦ yes!!!!!!!

[junyi_zhu]

hotShot, on Apr 25 2007, 07:46 AM, said:

GIB makes a little less than one playing mistake in 3 boards, this is about that what human Experts/ World Class player can do.
But there is a difference in the kind of errors they make. Human player use some sort of reasoning, while GIB uses statistics. So while expert errors still look reasonable, GIB errors seem "mindless".
In this case there is a big chance that the 2♥ bidder is void in ♦ and since we know he is weak and did not have ♥KQJ there is a big chance he does not have ♦J.
Obviously GIB estimated the chance that the ♦ 4-0 distributed higher than the chance that the 2♥ bidder has the ♦J.

I was shocked to read this comment. How can one compare a program without defensive signals, basic understanding of opp bidding, tons of bugs in bidding system and basic design flaws in bidding and defence with expert or advanced or even intermediate human players?

[Flame]

Make no mistake, i think money bridge with gibs is a great thing, and i play it alot (and makes money) still those who dont play with gib and think Gib is ok bidder or that the FD is perfect just dont know what they are talking about.
There are many examples, some more funny then others like the FD saying Gib showed 7+H and 7+D... i guess gib had 14 cards that hand. this 14 cards are pretty rare but many times you find X+ pnts X- pnts on one sentence.

[Flame]

Sometimes the mistakes are just simple not too fasinating like today gib had

---

The bidding went with opps silence:
1♥-1♠
2♣-3♥ showing invite with 3 card support.

[Gerben42]

GIB was quite ahead of its time, especially in the play. Now bidding... that's so hard especially since there are so many situations. And then there's hand evaluation during the auction, that's hard. Even if you would teach the computer a relay system, where responder always has one right bid to make, the other side (continue relaying or bid something) would be almost impossible to get right.

[nige1]

Flame, on Jun 11 2007, 05:28 AM, said:

Sometimes  the mistakes are just simple; not too fascinating; like today gib had
♠ 8 5 3 2 ♥ Q 7 2 ♦ T 4 3 ♣ A 4 2
The bidding went with opps silent:
1♥-1♠
2♣-3♥  showing invite with 3 card support.

I hope that you had the courage to go on to game with your
♠ x ♥ A J T x x ♦ x x ♣ K Q J x x

How can you blame GIB that the trump finesse lost?

[junyi_zhu]

Gerben42, on Jun 11 2007, 10:36 AM, said:

GIB was quite ahead of its time, especially in the play. Now bidding... that's so hard especially since there are so many situations. And then there's hand evaluation during the auction, that's hard. Even if you would teach the computer a relay system, where responder always has one right bid to make, the other side (continue relaying or bid something) would be almost impossible to get right.

even the design of play is quite wrong. Bridge is game of partnership, a game of hidden information, not a game for double dummy. That means one has to develop a strong artificial intelligence to understand what's going on at the table. That includes "what do opp's bids mean", "how to set the correct constraints and generate random deals fast enough", "what does the signal of partner tell? how does it affect your play?" "what's opp's style of bidding, how to adjust to it?" "what are opps' defensive signals, are they reliable or not, what do they tell you about their hands?" "what type of defence I should make and what effects it'll have on partner? can it simplify and clearify the situation and partner may thus have a clear read of the situation?" It's a very complicated issue. And bidding should never be based on a dozen of randomly generated hands that may have already set the wrong constraints. Also, the true money comes from some rare events, like "how to guard against some rare distribution and improve your percentage of play", all those rare events can hardly be generated in a dozen of deals. So Zia's bet is still very sound and in a the near future, computer program just has no chance to defeat human players. It really requires a big leap in AI I believe for computer program to have some real chance against humanbeing.

[Flame]

Todays examples of Gib's bidding.

---

1♣-1♠
2♣
How much do you like the hand ? Gib thought its invite to game and bid only 3♠.

and another example:

Gib open 1♣

---

And the bidding
1♣-2♦
3♣
No need to show the ♠ ?

[pclayton]

The strange results I've had are in auctions where GIB is in unfamiliar territory.

Here's an example: Today GIB Partner picks up: ♠Ax, ♥Txxx ♦QT9 ♣QTxx.

LHOGIB.....Me......RHOGIB......GIBpard
3♦......3♠......4♦......Pass

This pass is reasonable enough. Even playing responsive doubles, I think the hand doesn't qualify. The bidding continued:

Pass.....4♠......Pass.....

Maybe I don't have a 4♠ call on: ♠KQ9xxx, ♥xx, ♦void, ♣Axxxx, however, but there was 5 minutes left in the MBT and I needed to play some catchup.

4♠ is icy: spades are 3-2, and the club king is on my left. However, GIB chose a 5♠ call......

[barmar]

Here's my entry in "stupid GIB tricks":

Scoring: Total Points

-- -- -- P
P 1♥ 2♣ P
P X 2♠ P
P X P 3♦
4♣ P P X
P 4♥ X P
P 5♦ X All Pass

---

EW should go down at least 2 in 4♣X, but instead it pulls my double so that we can go down 2 instead. At least it was wise enough to run from 4♥X to 5♦, I think we'd have gone down 3 in that.

2 boards later, we have this one, which could be my own fault:

Scoring: Total Points

-- -- -- P
P 1♥ 2♣ P
P X 2♠ P
P X P 3♦
4♣ P P X
P 4♥ X P
P 5♦ X All Pass

---

Making 4. Was I wrong in assuming my 2♠ bid was forcing? Did I need to bid 3♠?