[sfbp]

(2D) X
??

Scoring: IMP

---

OK, so we have established that the panel agrees that DOUBLE is the best action over the opening 2D bid.

Interestingly at the table, both East players bid 2NT. The opposing team went to RKC 1430 and had some sort of screwup after a 5♦ response (they were the highly qualified team). My partner's partner bid a pedestrian 4♠ and we pushed the board at +710.

My partner was completely convinced that his 2NT was the right bid (partners always are), because he wanted to paint a picture of the ♦ situation. However I knew (which was in a way good) that he would take my bidding as natural, whereas I would normally expect transfers to be on, which doesn't particularly serve my purpose here (I want to protect the ♥Q).

I suggested (and I admit this was completely after the fact, I can be annoying that way, but I like bidding to be based on structure, and I am still wrestling with the fact that in this case, the bid would have been to me the only real indicator for slamming) that 3♣ immediately gives the West hand a much better picture.

Structurally it seems to me that 3♣ isn't such a bad bid. Sure, it is sticking your neck out - we needed to after the PRO's 1♠ bid previously described to have any chance in this Swiss. We were within one good board result's of coming an extremely honourable second to a much tuffer team yet.

Over 2M we already play a convention that specifically prevents us from making bids like 3♣ on this sort of rubbish. I would like to hear from the experts

a. How you think the auction might reasonably develop after a 2NT overcall, given transfers on?

b. Whether you can see slam being bid after a X, and if so the sequence you would like?

If I really got a 3♣ bid, I would have bid 6♠ right off the bat.

(2♦) 3♣
3♦ (P) 3NT (P)
6♠

Or something approximating (I'm not a great believer in blackwood).

[pclayton]

Ugh; 3♣ wouldn't occur to me.

After 2N; 3♥ transfer. Now West tries 4♥ as a generic slam try. East's hand looks really good with all the primes and can take control I believe.

After Double; West is too good for 4♠ and should cue first. East tries 3N and now west bids 4♠. Will they get to slam after this start? Anybody's guess

[kfgauss]

pclayton, on Jun 16 2006, 02:54 PM, said:

After 2N; 3♥ transfer. Now West tries 4♥ as a generic slam try. East's hand looks really good with all the primes and can take control I believe.

2N-3H;3S-4H shows both majors, not a slam try.

The generic slam try here is:

2N-3H;3S-4S (as opposed to using texas).

I agree that this is what the West hand is worth.

Andy

[Echognome]

How great is slam anyway? Yes the ♦K is likely to be onside, but I know playing in my partnership, that drops down a bit. But forgetting the ♦K, suppose you get a ♥ lead. So you lose to the ♥K. Now you have to play trumps for no losers. I hope the preemptor doesn't have the stiff J.

Anyway, I think 2NT is a good indicator of the East hand. East is 5332 shape with values in his short suits. Wtp?

[kfgauss]

Echognome, on Jun 16 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

How great is slam anyway? Yes the ♦K is likely to be onside, but I know playing in my partnership, that drops down a bit. But forgetting the ♦K, suppose you get a ♥ lead. So you lose to the ♥K. Now you have to play trumps for no losers. I hope the preemptor doesn't have the stiff J.

Anyway, I think 2NT is a good indicator of the East hand. East is 5332 shape with values in his short suits. Wtp?

It's a pretty good slam. You're not so likely to get a heart lead, and even if you do, the ♥K might be onside (or you might well bring in trumps).

That said, it'd be a poorish slam if clubs & hearts were swapped.

Andy

[jdonn]

3♣ is my 5th choice. If my RHO opens with 1 of something, I would never, ever, ever, ever ever ever, EVER, overcall on the 2 level on a suit as bad as Axxxx when vul, and extremely rarely when not vul. This applies double (many more evers) on the three level. The safety completely disappears above the one level, and you are just begging to take nothing but the 4 tricks you are looking at and go for 1400. I have few rules that I follow with no exceptions, but this is one of them, period. Perhaps I am being a little too strong, but not by much. This is so important when RHO opened in a preempt, since now LHO's doubles are penalty. It is not very hard to catch you there when they should!

There is a hand in yesterday's daily bulletin in Verona where Mike Moss overcalled 2♦ on the two level on I believe Ax Axx Axxxx Axx, NOT VUL AGAINST VUL, and still got slaughtered when his opponents were about to end in a bad partscore (possibly in diamonds!) You just can't bid bad suits on the 2 level and up, even with good hands, especially when your opponent's doubles are penalty.

2♦ X p 3♦ p 3NT p 4♠ p ? seems obvious. Now given the well placed diamonds, great controls, and the fact that east has already tended to deny good spades, I believe east should make a move, though the auction could continue many ways from here. It is not trivial to bid a 27 point slam with no shortnesses anywhere. If east passed 4♠, I would not say it's clear that was a mistake.

On the auction you propose, why shouldn't east have x Jxx AQx AJTxxx or so? It's one thing to not believe in blackwood, but I do believe in at least knowing there is a fit before I blast a slam.

[bid_em_up]

deleted

[inquiry]

Jdonn and I frequently disagree on a lot. But here we are on the same wavelegnth, I would NEVER overcall 3♣ here, nor would I over call 2♣. I think bidding 3♣ on this hand is, well, horrible.