[mr1303]

Scoring: MP

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Bidding goes:

1S 2D 2S 3H
4S P P ?

What do you bid here?

For the record, 1S 2D P 2H would be constructive, but not forcing. You have no agreement about how forcing your 3H bid is here. Double of 2S would be responsive.

[MickyB]

I double. Opposite a real 2D overcall, I do not expect this to make, and have no reason to believe we have a game of our own on.

[mike777]

Pass

I assume my vul 3h bid promised some hcp in hearts and some real values? See no need to bid my values twice. I do not think we are in a forcing pass situation.

[mikeh]

double.

this is an easy one, altho I am by no means saying that it has to work.

If partner leaves it in (as he probably will) he will lead a red suit. He will lead ♦ with the AK or KQ10.. (or better). He will lead a ♥ with, say, AQ ♦. Either way, we rate to score some red suit tricks plus maybe a ruff or two, and I have the ♣ suit under control.

Actually, the best lead for us may well be a trump, but I don't expect partner to find it.

If partner pulls, it should NOT be to 5♦: he can pull to 4N with secondary ♣ or to 5♥ with unexpected ♥ length, but I really don't expect him to bid.

As for why I double: the 4♠ bid is a standard technique with a long ♠ suit and some shape: it is an assumption of captaincy by that bidder, so he can be doing this with an expectation of making or as an advance save. We cannot afford to pass.

[Al_U_Card]

If they have a fit, we have a fit.....but pard "knows" that you have 6 hearts. He can't have more than 2 S cards so is he 1 H and 4 C? Listening to the bidding it looks like they have good trumps and some shape....with opener holding your H K. I think that shape hands should be bid and this one has a lot of downside potential but 5C is not clear but I would prefer it to dbl (pass is a bit to docile for my taste) and I feel that freely bid games in active auctions tend to make, so why not ours? When they take the push (and they often do... ) pard will lead a C when it's right

[mike777]

It just seems to me partner would x with most hands and has not for some reason?
She knows we can pull her x with some unusual hand so......
Again it just seems x by us is bidding our values twice.

1) What hand does partner expect for our 3h bid?
2) assuming that hand what hand does partner's pass of 4s show that he does not x on?
3) It seems if partner has a 2 suited minor suit hand he needs to do something over 4s, yes?
4) those who bid something seem to assume partner's pass over 4s is forcing?

[mikeh]

Al_U_Card, on Mar 28 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

  When they take the push (and they often do... ) pard will lead a C when it's right

I would love to play against opps who would 'take the push' over any bid by me, let alone 5♣: a new suit at the 5-level on a no-fit auction. I very much doubt that a good player, sitting as your LHO, has any intention of bidding again, other than perhaps to say double. And RHO has no rights here at all: except to say double with the type of hand that is sure of a set opposite a preemptive 4♠

And as for getting the ♣ lead when its right: do you want partner to lead a ♣ from Axx(x)?

[flytoox]

dbl is clear cut.

[luis]

Pass,
I don't think I can get 500 against 4♠x and 100 instead of 300 is not a crime, double is very very dangerous at this vulnerability, if opener has a distributional hand and he is sure it can't be worst than down 1 he will redouble 4♠ and it will be painful. For example a hand with a void in clubs and 7 spades will redouble in a breeze. Opener is unlimited and pd passed over 4♠. Definitevly doesn't look like the right hand to double.

With the usual respect that characterizes my noble person I think the doublers are completely crazy here.

[mikeh]

luis, on Mar 29 2006, 12:06 PM, said:

For example a hand with a void in clubs and 7 spades will redouble in a breeze. Opener is unlimited and pd passed over 4♠. Definitevly doesn't look like the right hand to double.

With the usual respect that characterizes my noble person I think the doublers are completely crazy here.

Let's see: opener jumped to 4♠ white v red and we are passing out of fear that he will redouble, partner will pass, and the contract is cold?

Playing in fear is no way to win.

Your 3♥ bid could be on a poor hand with long, good texture, ♥, without the playing or defensive strength of your actual holding. Pass may work on this board. However, if I were playing a long match, I would expect to routinely beat any team whose members thought that pass was the percentage action on this type of hand/auction.

BTW, opener is NOT comletely unlimited, if he is a good player: on many power hands, he would have involved partner in case we bid 5 of a red suit.

[pbleighton]

"Playing in fear is no way to win."

Mike, you say this to LUIS?

Pistols at dawn

Peter

[luis]

mikeh, on Mar 29 2006, 06:13 PM, said:

luis, on Mar 29 2006, 12:06 PM, said:

For example a hand with a void in clubs and 7 spades will redouble in a breeze. Opener is unlimited and pd passed over 4♠. Definitevly doesn't look like the right hand to double.

With the usual respect that characterizes my noble person I think the doublers are completely crazy here.

Let's see: opener jumped to 4♠ white v red and we are passing out of fear that he will redouble, partner will pass, and the contract is cold?

Playing in fear is no way to win.

Your 3♥ bid could be on a poor hand with long, good texture, ♥, without the playing or defensive strength of your actual holding. Pass may work on this board. However, if I were playing a long match, I would expect to routinely beat any team whose members thought that pass was the percentage action on this type of hand/auction.

BTW, opener is NOT comletely unlimited, if he is a good player: on many power hands, he would have involved partner in case we bid 5 of a red suit.

Vulnerable opponents tend to NOT bid 5 over 4♠ when the NV side has the strength, I've seen some intrepid red vs red sacrifices but a red vs white sacrifice would be a novelty.

Yes I'm afraid they might redouble 4♠ and make me look like an idiot, when double is right you convert 50 in 100 or 100 in 300, do you feel like a hero or what?

Luis

[han]

Perhaps Luis and Mikeh expect different hands for the 2D overcall. For me this is an honest bid, so double seems clear.

[dcvetkov]

Dbl is not so clear cut but....

I expect them to go down, and shortness in partner suit is always good for defence.
I would expect to go down 1 or 2, and would be surprised if it does not, only if partner bid on his good looks

[civill]

Pass,for no fit,nor defence HCPs.

[mikeh]

Hannie, on Mar 29 2006, 07:30 PM, said:

Perhaps Luis and Mikeh expect different hands for the 2D overcall. For me this is an honest bid, so double seems clear.

Luis and I are playing different games on this one: I respect my partner's red v white 2♦, and expect opener to be saving, while Luis seems to think that LHO has a huge hand. He's worried about a redouble while I think LHO is out stealing from us.

[Free]

It's MP, DBL!

[whereagles]

Double. I can't believe they make an overtrick, and can quite easily go 2 down.

[mr1303]

Thanks all for your views. I agreed that some sort of action was clear-cut, although quite what I wasn't sure. Anyway, the reason I'm posting this one here is actually a UI case. Partner hesitated for significantly longer than the 10 seconds she was meant to pause for, before passing.

I chose to double on the hand, and it went 1 off (it could have gone two off, but I think there was a slight misdefence). Director was called etc etc. How do you rule?

[whereagles]

Ruling: no double, and 1 down. Pard's hesitation suggests bidding, and pass is a logical alternative.