[FrancesHinden]

Scoring: IMP

---

Partner deals, teams-of-8 cross-imps. I'm afraid I'm going to stick you with our auction; this actually isn't a particularly good hand for our methods. Don't bother telling me how your methods would have done better, I know they would have done, but then you wouldn't have had this problem. The opponents don't bid.

Partner You
1S 2C
2H 3D
3S 4D
4H 4S
5H ?

1S = 5 card majors
2C = forcing to 2S ONLY
2H = natural, 54 or better in the majors, would tend to rebid 2H with 6-4 on anything except a real sub-minimum opener
3D = FSF (2S and 3S would both have been NF)
3S = would like to have a 6th spade, but may be stuck for a bid. 3H would definitely show a 5th heart, so a 5422 with no diamond stop may have to bid 3S (but AKxxx Kxxx xx Kx would probably bid 4C and most 5431s would bid 3NT even without a diamond stop if they didn't have good spades)
4D = slam try in spades, likely to have 3-card support but may be very strong, fairly balanced with a doubleton spade and nothing else to bid e.g. 2335 with poor diamonds. 4NT here would have been natural, invitational so this definitely shows spade support.
4H = cue bid.
4S = nothing else to say
5H = cue bid. Extra values, denies the CK or a singleton diamond (or DA). 5S instead would be a general try, probably focussing on your trump support (it would not be asking for a diamond control).

Well, you are worth a slam. But 6S or 6NT? Partner is most likely to be 6421 or possibly 5422 (but then he will have more high cards and definitely have good spades).

You generally don't play 5NT as choice of slams, though it's a little difficult to think of any other meaning for it. But even if you try 5NT, partner won't necessarily realise you are offering spades and NT, he'll think it's spades or clubs.

I'll even go a step further: I'll tell you partner's hand:

KQ109xx
AK7x
x
xx

Now, which slam would you prefer to play in?

[Fluffy]

I didn't even think of 6NT, some cards like ♥AJxx require ♥ ruff. Even with the given hand 6NT needs ♣ finese, while 6♠ only a ♥ or ♠ break

[bearmum]

FrancesHinden, on Dec 9 2005, 11:39 PM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ A52 ♥ Q3 ♦ KQ75 ♣ AQ94

Partner deals, teams-of-8 cross-imps.  I'm afraid I'm going to stick you with our auction; this actually isn't a particularly good hand for our methods. Don't bother telling me how your methods would have done better, I know they would have done, but then you wouldn't have had this problem.  The opponents don't bid.

Partner                You
1S                      2C
2H                      3D
3S                      4D
4H                      4S
5H                      ?

1S = 5 card majors
2C = forcing to 2S ONLY
2H = natural, 54 or better in the majors, would tend to rebid 2H with 6-4 on anything except a real sub-minimum opener
3D = FSF (2S and 3S would both have been NF)
3S = would like to have a 6th spade, but may be stuck for a bid. 3H would definitely show a 5th heart, so a 5422 with no diamond stop may have to bid 3S (but AKxxx Kxxx xx Kx would probably bid 4C and most 5431s would bid 3NT even without a diamond stop if they didn't have good spades)
4D = slam try in spades, likely to have 3-card support but may be very strong, fairly balanced with a doubleton spade and nothing else to bid e.g. 2335 with poor diamonds. 4NT here would have been natural, invitational so this definitely shows spade support.
4H = cue bid.
4S = nothing else to say
5H = cue bid.  Extra values, denies the CK or a singleton diamond (or DA).  5S instead would be a general try, probably focussing on your trump support (it would not be asking for a diamond control).

Well, you are worth a slam. But 6S or 6NT?  Partner is most likely to be 6421 or possibly 5422 (but then he will have more high cards and definitely have good spades).

You generally don't play 5NT as choice of slams, though it's a little difficult to think of any other meaning for it. But even if you try 5NT, partner won't necessarily realise you are offering spades and NT, he'll think it's spades or clubs.

I'll even go a step further: I'll tell you partner's hand:

KQ109xx
AK7x
x
xx

Now, which slam would you prefer to play in?

Assuming that my bid will close the auction AND having to choose between slams ( when I dislike the bidding sequence whatever system I am comfortable with ) I will choose 6♠

[pbleighton]

6S. You know pd will get a heart ruff (I assume 5H showed the HK).

Peter

[Robert]

Hi everyone

6NT by East. A club lead could shuttle 6S before it got started. 6NT will often be cold with either minor suit lead into East.

I am curious why you play both 2S and 3S as non forcing. Do you mind telling the reason for both being non forcing?

I play bridge with both genders, so 'if' your partner is female please change my 'he' or 'his' to 'she' or 'her' to avoid any possible gender mixups.

I can understand this auction with partner holding 6412, but if he bid this way with
KQ10xx AKxx xx xx I will be seeking another partner very shortly. We do not have any source of tricks barring a near miracle layout of the cards and suits also breaking well.

Where is his 'extra values' slam tries coming from? He denied the club King and the D Ace according to the bidding explanation. An odd Jack or two really does not 'show' extra slam values with a 5422 shape at least not in this auction.

If 4Ds could have been showing(according to the explanation) 'weak' diamonds, how can 5S focus on your spade support and 'not' be asking for a diamond control?

The two explanations appear to conflict with one another.

Regards,
Robert

[FrancesHinden]

Robert, on Dec 9 2005, 08:57 AM, said:

I am curious why you play both 2S and 3S as non forcing. Do you mind telling the reason for both being non forcing?

A 2/1 is made on about 9+ HCP. This means it can only be forcing to 2 of partner's major or you will get too high. A 2/1 is also the way in which you introduce a 3-card invite, so that's what 1S - 2D - 2H - 3S shows, about 10-12 HCP with 3 spades.

p.s. the light 2/1 style does have advantages but this isn't really the place to discuss them. It does make some slam auctions like this one slightly more awkward.

[FrancesHinden]

Quote

I can understand this auction with partner holding 6412, but if he bid this way with
KQ10xx AKxx xx xx I will be seeking another partner very shortly. We do not have any source of tricks barring a near miracle layout of the cards and suits also breaking well.

Quite. That hand has no extra values.
I agree that the 5H cue bid implies he has 6S, otherwise it's difficult to see where the slam try is coming from as he can't cue bid a minor.

[hrothgar]

Very interesting question...

The argument for 6♠ is simple. If partner declarers 6♠, he can ruff a Heart in dummy. This gives him 12 winners. 6 top Spades, three top Hearts, 1 Heart ruff, and two cards in the minors.

The argument against 6♠ is also simple... As Robert notes, your partner is declaring a Spade contract. A Club lead would be very problematic. You risk losing a Club and a Diamond before you can cash your winners.

I think that 6NT is a better contract.

You expect 9 tricks in the majors. In an ideal world, the opponents will lead a minor giving you your three last tricks. If the opponents make a safe lead, you can cross to dummy and lead a Diamond. If this loses, you might have some squeeze possibilities, with the Club ruff to fall back on.

From my perspective, the real ugly question is what would you do if you win the first Diamond trick... What happens if LHO is sitting on AJx in Diamonds and was clever enough to duck the first trick?

[Winstonm]

6S.

In either contract the club King has to be onside; opp over the diamonds had two chances to double diamonds and did not - you are receiving a club lead guaranteed in 6 spades. When both contracts fail, 6 spades goes down 1 fewer. The duck of the ace when the singleton diamond is led is not a difficult play.

Winston

[mikeh]

I vote for 6N in order to avoid/postpone the ♣ hook. Put it this way: in 6N I have plays even if both minor cards are behind me, while in 6♠ I am down off the top on a ♣ lead if that card is offside. I prefer to go down in slams late in the play, not early

There are too many alternatives to outline all of the contingencies, but I think I have a play for the contract on any lie of the cards, assuming rho does not have 4♠: I can pick them up but on a ♥ lead, my communications are a bit tangled.

[Winstonm]

mikeh, on Dec 9 2005, 11:09 AM, said:

I vote for 6N in order to avoid/postpone the ♣ hook. Put it this way: in 6N I have plays even if both minor cards are behind me, while in 6♠ I am down off the top on a ♣ lead if that card is offside. I prefer to go down in slams late in the play, not early

There are too many alternatives to outline all of the contingencies, but I think I have a play for the contract on any lie of the cards, assuming rho does not have 4♠: I can pick them up but on a ♥ lead, my communications are a bit tangled.

Assuming the club finesse is off - the only thing that matters in this hand and RHO makes the standard play of ducking the diamond Ace if the singleton is led from dummy - then due to entry problems the only option left is a heart/club strip squeeze in 6N. No much gain and a lot of guessing to do.

My actual vote on this had is 6 spades from the other side - but since I can't do this, I'd prefer to play the hand in 5S.

With all due respect to MikeH, I stand by my decision of action that may push or lead to a small gain in 6S, but then I'm not a great declarer and great declarers would always like to postpone the decision to the end as they rightly sense they will get it correct a high percentage of the time. Me, I have to go by percentages from the start and get to the most logical contract.

Winston

[Robert]

Hi hrothgar

Unless this is a weak game, I expect the King of diamonds to win 90+% of the time.

The hold up is normally correct holding AJx or Ax or Axx since, if the lead to the Queen is attempted, partner's Jack will win the trick after your Ace 'covers' the Queen.

One top ranked American player had KQ10 and lost the first trick in the suit to the Ace, he 'knew' that the defender(a frequent partner) would never make that play without some good reason, so he played the Queen next and dropped the now singleton Jack.

This leads to some interesting cross and double cross play. Do you sometimes win the Ace so that your holding of AJ doubleton will be protected at another time?

Both declarer and defender must judge the level of the other player and also judge the other players 'opinion' of their level of play. Triple cross anyone?

Regards,
Robert

[winkle]

FrancesHinden, on Dec 9 2005, 05:39 AM, said:

...

5H = cue bid.  Extra values, denies the CK or a singleton diamond (or DA).  ...

...

I'll even go a step further: I'll tell you partner's hand:

KQ109xx
AK7x
x
xx

Now, which slam would you prefer to play in?

Partner's actual hand seems inconsistent with expectation?

If he's 6421, I'd strongly prefer 6♠. If he's 6412, I still prefer 6♠ but not as strongly.

[mike777]

Only looking at my hand I would have bid 6NT following the Kleinman 3 Queen rule. With 3 queens nt is often best. Bidding 6s is very close because I can ruff a heart.

[Blofeld]

Want to echo winkle's point - has partner lied, or was there a typo in there somewhere?

I think I'd rather play 6♠.

[beatrix45]

6♠, going down one about 1/3 of the time.

I would have liked to have bid 6NT, if indeed I had thought of it, but the hand obviously has an extra trick playing in spades. Having enough tricks, as opposed to losers, may be the issue given our probable combined high card count of around 30.