[joker_gib]

Scoring: MP

Auction goes :
1♦ (3♣) ???

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[SchTsch]

3♥

[luke warm]

3♥ or x depending on your methods

[cherdano]

SchTsch, on Dec 1 2005, 01:35 PM, said:

3♥

Yup.

[joker_gib]

luke warm, on Dec 1 2005, 12:35 PM, said:

3♥ or x depending on your methods

No special method, Jimmy

So what's your bid ?

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

4C

3H should promise a better suit,
partner will raise with Hx and xxx.

There is also the posibility that over
3H we hear 5C, partner will pass
most of the time, and when he hears
5D he wont believe, that I have such
great support.

The only drawback, we are playing MP.

I wont Dbl, because I dont want to play
3Cx

Marlowe

[bearmum]

3♥

[luis]

3♥ forcing

[inquiry]

DOUBLE, 3!h second choice... 4-3 spade from partners side might play better than 5-3 heart fit from mine with club through partner anyway. I am raising diamonds next unless partner a) jumps to 4♠, or magically bids hearts.

[SchTsch]

inquiry, on Dec 1 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

I am raising diamonds next unless partner a) jumps to 4♠, or magically bids hearts.

or passes 3♣X...

[inquiry]

SchTsch, on Dec 1 2005, 09:46 AM, said:

inquiry, on Dec 1 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

I am raising diamonds next unless partner a) jumps to 4♠, or magically bids hearts.

or passes 3♣X...

Then I have my bid... I didn't promise ♣, and I have major suit values as promised. I would guess if partner is willing to defend 3♣X opposite a negative double with the ♣ bidder behind him, we are in the correct spot.

[mikeh]

I am bidding 3♥, as a least of evils choice. It is a gross overbid, but pass is pathetic: the odds are high that passing makes it your lead, and double is wrong for multiple reasons. You do not want to be on lead against 3♣ doubled, and those who profess no worries on that score are deluding themselves. Our double would promise far more defence than we have. Plus, playing in ♠ is not exactly ideal: even assuming that partner must have 4 of them to bid them (and that is not assured... I recently read a similar problem in a 1990's vintage Bridge World and many panelists got themselves into a 3-3 fit).

My problem, after 3♥, will arise if he bids 3N. Now I have to pass (almost certainly in a bad spot) or bid some number of ♦, knowing that partner has wasted ♣ values.

Raising ♦ immediately has some attraction, but at what level? 3♦ seems like an underbid, 5♦ too unilateral and 4♦ may be best but gives up on 3N and 4♥: two of our possible games while not assuring us of reaching the 3rd. 4♣ is seductive, but I'd like to hold an Ace somewhere before making a slam try.

Great problem: lots of choices, and none a clear winner, imho.

[mike777]

3D

If partner takes another bid I should be in good shape to now bid 4 clubs.
Hate to make takeout x on voids.

I guess I have seen these BBO 3 club bids where they have 15 hcp and call it weak too often. If LHO raises clubs, again, I should be in good shape.

[luke warm]

joker_gib, on Dec 1 2005, 06:41 AM, said:

luke warm, on Dec 1 2005, 12:35 PM, said:

3♥ or x depending on your methods

No special method, Jimmy

So what's your bid ?

Alain

you have to have some treatment here... is double negative, showing hearts? if so, double (i think you're strong enough, and i don't think it promises any desire at all to defend 3♣)... is 3♥ negative? is 3♥ forcing?

so yes, i think it matters what methods you play

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Dec 1 2005, 12:48 PM, said:

3D

Me too, 3H promises more and will get us in trouble when LHO jacks the preempt. The lesser lie (I have a limit raise in D) will bear fruit when pard can bid 3NT (I will pass) or 4D and NOW I can show the H suit.

[Fluffy]

X is GF on this situation, so it is not better than 3♥.

between 3♦ and 3♥ I am happy with 3♦, if we have double fit, they will also do, ,and it won't matter much if we play in 5♦ or 5♥ over 4♠ or 5♣

[Kalvan14]

3♥. If you bid diamonds now, you'll never convince pard that you have a real hearts suit.
X - for me - is something more like a 4-4-5-0 or 4-4-4-1 or 3-4-5-1.
3♦ is a bit wimpy. It goes pass-pass-pass, and you might have 5 or even 6 ♦!
A case might be made for 4♣ (an overbid, IMO; and it looses the chance to hear a 3N from pard - or not hear it, and draw positive inferences).

[mike777]

Kalvan14, on Dec 1 2005, 07:23 PM, said:

3♥. If you bid diamonds now, you'll never convince pard that you have a real hearts suit.
X - for me - is something more like a 4-4-5-0 or 4-4-4-1 or 3-4-5-1.
3♦ is a bit wimpy. It goes pass-pass-pass, and you might have 5 or even 6 ♦!
A case might be made for 4♣ (an overbid, IMO; and it looses the chance to hear a 3N from pard - or not hear it, and draw positive inferences).

hmm we are at unfav vul and we have zero clubs and only 8Hcp. Give rho 7 clubs and lho how many and you expect the bidding to go pass, pass, pass? Anything is possible but let's get real. I expect 4 or 5 clubs is more likely by lho than pass/pass/pass.

[Kalvan14]

mike777, on Dec 1 2005, 07:55 PM, said:

Kalvan14, on Dec 1 2005, 07:23 PM, said:

3♥. If you bid diamonds now, you'll never convince pard that you have a real hearts suit.
X - for me - is something more like a 4-4-5-0 or 4-4-4-1 or 3-4-5-1.
3♦ is a bit wimpy. It goes pass-pass-pass, and you might have 5 or even 6 ♦!
A case might be made for 4♣ (an overbid, IMO; and it looses the chance to hear a 3N from pard - or not hear it, and draw positive inferences).

hmm we are at unfav vul and we have zero clubs and only 8Hcp. Give rho 7 clubs and lho how many and you expect the bidding to go pass, pass, pass? Anything is possible but let's get real. I expect 4 or 5 clubs is more likely by lho than pass/pass/pass.

Actually, I give 6 clubs to RHO (he's non vuln vs. vuln, is he not?), 3 clubs to LHO and 4 to pard.
Let me ask you another question: do you think you will play below game?
I mean, unless it goes 3D-P-P-P?
If partner does not have wated values in clubs, I might play slam. And I do prefer to give a correct picture of my hand from the beginning.

[mike777]

I understand 3h by many of the posters, I still prefer 3D. If partner is 11-13 balanced 3d.... p=p=p may be ok. If partner bids 3H=?cuebid/stopper/suit I can bid 4H to show real suit with values having limited my hand. Over 3S I can bid 4clubs and over 3nt by partner we have duplicated values.

I assume if LHO has 3 clubs he is bidding 4 or 5 clubs with his next bid often, but understand pass.

I could even see 5 clubs if void showing but weaker then 4club cuebid.