[HeartA]

Al_U_Card, on Dec 1 2005, 03:18 PM, said:

mike777, on Dec 1 2005, 12:48 PM, said:

3D

Me too, 3H promises more and will get us in trouble when LHO jacks the preempt. The lesser lie (I have a limit raise in D) will bear fruit when pard can bid 3NT (I will pass) or 4D and NOW I can show the H suit.

3D? That would be terribly underbid. 5D would be my first choice, followed with 3H.

[P_Marlowe]

HeartA, on Dec 2 2005, 02:17 AM, said:

3D? That would be terribly underbid. 5D would be my first choice, followed with 3H.

Hi,

5D playing MP?

Sry, if you decide to play diamonds, you should
at least give yourself the chance to get lucky,
i.e the chance to find magic 6D.

I agree, that 4C is an overbid, but for me it is just
game forcing setting tumps.

Marlowe

[joker_gib]

luke warm, on Dec 1 2005, 09:03 PM, said:

you have to have some treatment here... is double negative, showing hearts? if so, double (i think you're strong enough, and i don't think it promises any desire at all to defend 3♣)... is 3♥ negative? is 3♥ forcing?

With no special method I think that in standard, 3♥ is forcing of course.

Alain

[joker_gib]

OK, thanks all for the responses but let's go a little further in the auction.

Suppose you bid 3♥ which was the bid chosen at the table, you hear :

1♦ - (3♣) - 3♥ - (3NT)
X - (P) - ???

To you ...

[coyot]

4♣ for me... with the club void, I have values to play in 4♦. Sure, I might miss a good heart contract and play 5♦ down 1 or 4♦ just, but, on the other hand, I might as well miss a laydown 5♦ and play instead a lousy 4♥ going down with bad breaks of the trump suit (and the diamonds as well).

I want to show support of diamonds - and if partner happens to have 4 hearts and just a little extra, he WILL bid 4♥. If he has Qxx or worse in hears, I'm not going to miss anything interesting in that suit.

[whereagles]

4♦ for me. Having made the slight overbid of 3♥, I'm going to try and put the breaks. If pard insists with 5♦, he'll buy a good dummy. If he passes 4♦, I'm ok with it.

[Winstonm]

Great problem hand.

I think I'm going for 4D. I'm not interested in defending so I don't double. While 4D in all likelihood loses the heart suit, I'm not so sure I want to play a 5/3 fit and take immediate taps anyway. Maybe I can get lucky and have partner bid 4H on the way to 5D if he holds a good hand - doubtful though.

Hard hand. Just taking my best guess.

Winston

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on Dec 1 2005, 04:20 PM, said:

X is GF on this situation, so it is not better than 3♥.

between 3♦ and 3♥ I am happy with 3♦,  if we have double fit, they will also do, ,and it won't matter much if we play in 5♦ or 5♥ over 4♠ or 5♣

Double is only gf if it is penalty: 3♣ x is game

Partner's 3Major is non-forcing. I cannot imagine playing negative doubles any other way (I played negative free bids for a while and strongly dislike them, even if they would apply at this level). Standard neg doubles are certainly not gf in this part of the world.

[han]

This is what I think about the possible bids:

The double is not GF and is truly awful.

3D is not invitational and a huge underbid imo.

All other options are overbids so I might as well introduce my hearts: 3♥.

After the 3NT bid and the double by partner I have the chance to show exactly what I have by bidding 4D: a light, very distributional hand. The only problem with 4D is that 3NTX might just be a good score, but partner will forgive me for my cowardly but seemingly right pull.

[Kalvan14]

3N by LHO, and double by pard? I believe I do know LHO And pleeeease don't tell me 3N is bid to make.
5♦. Pard is showing some extras (why doubling 3N otherwise?), but likely he has values in clubs (otherwise the risk is to get 300 only as penalty). With 4 hearts, and extras I would expect pard to clarify his hands, and show the fit. If we have 8 hearts and 9 or 10 diamonds, I do prefer playing in diamonds

[mike777]

joker_gib, on Dec 2 2005, 04:10 AM, said:

OK, thanks all for the responses but let's go a little further in the auction.

Suppose you bid 3♥ which was the bid chosen at the table, you hear :

1♦ - (3♣) - 3♥ - (3NT)
X - (P) - ???

To you ...

No surprise that LHO has bid as I said before. Now 4clubs by me...I am really glad I could start out with limiting my hand with 3D, now I can show supermax hand with cuebid at 4 level. Since partner has now shown more than a minimum with X, I can now force to game. Over 4d rebid by partner I will bid 5d. 4h by partner will be rkc and 4s by partner will be cuebid.

[HeartA]

mike777, on Dec 2 2005, 09:34 PM, said:

No surprise that LHO has bid as I said before. Now 4clubs by me...I am really glad I could start out with limiting my hand with 3D, now I can show supermax hand with cuebid at 4 level. Since partner has now shown more than a minimum with X, I can now force to game. Over 4d rebid by partner  I will bid 5d. 4h by partner will be rkc and 4s by partner will be cuebid.

Mike,

To bid 3D and then cue-bid 4C is an IMPOSSIBLE sequence to me, because 3D could be passed out, while 4C is (almost) game forcing.

[mike777]

HeartA, on Dec 3 2005, 01:26 AM, said:

mike777, on Dec 2 2005, 09:34 PM, said:

No surprise that LHO has bid as I said before. Now 4clubs by me...I am really glad I could start out with limiting my hand with 3D, now I can show supermax hand with cuebid at 4 level. Since partner has now shown more than a minimum with X, I can now force to game. Over 4d rebid by partner  I will bid 5d. 4h by partner will be rkc and 4s by partner will be cuebid.

Mike,

To bid 3D and then cue-bid 4C is an IMPOSSIBLE sequence to me, because 3C could be passed out, while 4C is (almost) game forcing.

Yes 3d can be passed out..you could have balanced 11-13 hcp yes? RHO could make a funny wjo with a good hand, and LHO is an unpassed hand.

Now when you(partner) make a bid over 3nt you must have extra's yes? I revalue my hand and make a 4club cuebid.....well that was my thinking anyway.....

As Roth may say about my 3D bid...if I can just get past this round..... I and really think the odds are on my side it will not go 3d..p..p.p

[Fluffy]

mikeh, on Dec 2 2005, 11:58 PM, said:

Partner's 3Major is non-forcing. I cannot imagine playing negative doubles any other way (I played negative free bids for a while and strongly dislike them, even if they would apply at this level). Standard neg doubles are certainly not gf in this part of the world.

Idon't mean that all neg doubles are GF, but when a negative double expects partner to bid 3NT on a minimum balanced, then it is GF. for example if he has...

Kxx
xxx
A10xx
KQx

He will bid 3NT for sure, and stopping in 3M is just so unlikelly that playing GF will help partner to bid when he has 4M and strong hand or stopper.

[Fluffy]

If I'd bid 3♥ I would have pain after this auction, I wonder if the double of partner really means anything, he can double wwith minimum, maximum, support or anything, I feel confused

I would tend to think he has good ♣s, let's pass then.

[Kalvan14]

Fluffy, on Dec 3 2005, 09:56 AM, said:

If I'd bid 3♥ I would have pain after this auction, I wonder if the double of partner really means anything, he can double wwith minimum, maximum, support or anything, I feel confused

I would tend to think he has good ♣s, let's pass then.

There are too many clubs in this deck: LHO must have a fit in clubs for sure.
No way I am going to pass and defend 3N.

[joker_gib]

Thanks everyone for the replies !

Very interesting hand in many points, isn't it ?

I was kibitzing that hand where two of my regular partners were playing together.

The hands were something like :

Scoring: MP

---

And it went :

1♦ (3♣) 3♥ (3NT)
X (P) 4♦ (P)
4♥ (P) 5♦

For down one.

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

joker_gib, on Dec 6 2005, 04:47 AM, said:

Thanks everyone for the replies !

Very interesting hand in many points, isn't it ?

I was kibitzing that hand where two of my regular partners were playing together.

The hands were something like :

Scoring: MP

---

And it went :

1♦ (3♣) 3♥ (3NT)
X (P) 4♦ (P)
4♥ (P) 5♦

For down one.

Alain

Hi,

I dont understand the given seq.,
did South knew that North did hold
only two card support for hearts?

If you bid 3H, which is ok, you should
pass 4H, afterall that's what you wanted
to hear.

4H would not have played better, but that's
not the discussion here.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[joker_gib]

I agree but north "knew" that 4♥ was likely from 2 cards (because no direct support) and as his ♥'s are not fantastic he prefered to go back to ♦ with a sure 9 cards fit.

Alain