BBO Discussion Forums: Decision Time - BBO Discussion Forums

HighLow21, on 2012-January-31, 21:21, said:

FYP

Phil, I still can't find the stickies. Maybe it's because it's 4:30AM and I'm not interpreting directions correctly. Stickies are forum threads that stay at the top of the forum, yes? (i.e., not replies within the individual thread that are at the top). A/E forum doesn't seem to have any such pinned threads at the top. Am I missing something?

I am a total newbie to forums.

And my apologies to anyone I might have offended --> I guess when someone uses the phrase "everyone of a decent standard" they may not have meant any offense, but I definitely took it that way. I may not have the best bidding system in the world or a litany of championships under my belt, but I am excellent at this game and can't see myself ever playing a double in that situation as being primarily takeout. It can show cards; it can show quick tricks; but if I were interested in slam the last thing I personally would bid at the 5 level is a double of the opponent's very ambitious and long-suited preempt.

High low,

I have never ever heard someone here before call himself excellent. Not Mike, nor Justin, Gonzalo, Fred, Andy, Frances whoever. And they are internationalists for their countries. And they are really excellent. Do you mind to tell us, who you are, as you must be surely a member of the Blue Team, the Dalles Aces or at least Dutch Orange...?

I join the 6 ♣ camp, fully aware that 7 may be laydown.

Thanks all for the comments. This situation had not been explicitly discussed with this partner (we'd played several events together before, but not in over a year) and simply agreed to "standard" for any such situation. We both understood that the double was "do something smart," not "I have diamonds." The issue for me was "what is smart?"

It seemed a bit pushy to turn a plus score into a potential minus by risking it on a slam (partner may not be able to cover all my slow losers), and with 3 Aces and zero trump I thought my ODR was not as low as most of the responders seem to, so I passed. Didn't work out...

wyman, on 2012-January-31, 21:58, said:

Nice guess

That was indeed partner's hand, so pass was not the best option. 6 was cold (on not 5-0 hearts), 7 on finding the queen of clubs.

Even after reconsidering that pass was wrong, it was still not clear to me if I was supposed to bid 6C, 5NT, or something else. Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm trusting partner doesn't double here with much less
than S:KJ + C:KQ. I try 6C.

I like 5NT better than 6C, partner could even be 6-2-3-2. If we have a 5-4 club fit we'll get there after 5NT anyway. If we have a 5-3 club fit, we'll likely have a fit elsewhere that is at least as long.

HighLow, there are essentially 2 schools of thought on what this double means at the 5 level. The more traditional is card-showing, effectively asking partner to do something reasonably intelligent. The more modern solution is to play take-out doubles at all levels. Robson and Segal argue for the latter method in their excellent book on competitive bidding. You may not understand why this approach is good but many world class players do use it. Whatever your meaning for double, if you try to add hands such as your example - weak with length in the opponents' suit - into the double then you are spreading yourself too thin.

On the subject of forum etiquette, if you publically announce that only your chosen method is reasonable even though world champion players play the alternative then you are likely to attract a seriously negative response. There are many ways of approaching bidding in the game of bridge and it would be extremely arrogant for anyone to claim that only their way works. I doubt even someone like Rodwell would make such a claim. It is worse if you make a personal attack while apparently making such a claim.

While noone here can honestly say they know whether you are a good or bad player, or merely one of the nameless intermediates, I can assure you that following such a course will not impress anyone. Making high-quality posts that are helpful, thought-provoking and insightful on the other hand will quickly endear you to many. I look forward to you showing us your excellent bridge ability in such posts in the future.

Edit: @Codo, at least one member of these forums regularly describes themselves as an expert. More commonly, one of our resident experts describes another that way to a poster that appears not to be aware of it.

Zelandakh, on 2012-February-01, 07:21, said:

I usually prefer humorous over thought-provoking posts. I'm already thinking so much these days that I have trouble sleeping, I prefer my thoughts not to be further provoked.

HighLow21, on 2012-February-01, 03:31, said:

I posted a hyperlink to one of a 'pinned' threads by diana_eva. If you click on it you will be redirected there. For convenience, here is the 1st post in the thread, and I have highlighted a portion that is relevant:

Quote

Looks like an easy 6C, but I can see how pass can work better.

5NT also comes to mind and might be a better bid.

I would be thinking more along the lines of if I should just bid 7 rather than settle for 6. I would just settle for 6 but if you gave me the CQ I'm sure I'd bid 7.

Rex and I are having a similar major fight over the following hand: As usual, it has two parts from both perspectives. First, you hold:

Partner opens 1♦, promising at least 4 cards and likely an unbalanced hand. Now annoying RHO tosses in a 4♠ preempt.

Do you take action? If so, what is it?

Of course the followup is:

You hold and the auction is 1♦- LHO 4♠. If partner doubles, what do you do? If partner passes, what do you do?

microcap, on 2012-February-07, 08:17, said:

Pass.
4NT.
X playing the modern style, 4NT playing something more traditional.

+1 for P/4N/X

I think its worth considering P/4N/4N.

The south hand has so much strength in two suits that its not really suitable for a t/o double imo, as often when partner passes oppo might have a stiff heart and 4S will be cold and you will have had ten tricks in a red suit.

Its a difficult decision after 1d 4s p p for sure, but I am thinking that 4N might well be right. Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up and think double is better. I didnt see the vul, but certainly green vs red I will be bidding 4N I think.

I think double after partner passes stands out, I really dislike 4NT.

Pass with partner's hand and 4NT after the double are also pretty obvious, unless you play penalty doubles. Microcap, to my mind there is nothing to argue about. You can agree to play penalty doubles after 1D - 4S or you play takeout/cards doubles. Either way I think the answers are obvious.

Quote

Ok now I know how I look when I try to argue hopeless position with players who actually have a clue
At least I try to have back-up in actually knowing what good players play before I try this
As to the problem. 6♣ is imo the choice. We need to flop too much to try a grand. KQx K♥ to begin with and 4th club or K♠ for 13th trick.

I'm no expert, I just enjoy the game, but X for me is as the others say. Takeout orientated at low levels, more-than-expected-values orientated at high levels. It doesn't show a diamond stack, so I pass with nothing much to say, and bid if I have. Here I am very happy to bid when partner has values.

Having said that, some people at some local clubs are prone to way over-preempting. If I know the offender, I am more inclined to pass.

Incidentally, I just read the newbies tips, and it says "if you run out of arguments post a cat". Has Mr Ace run out of arguments?

Actually, when Josh Donn was posting regularly on BBO fora, he posted the fattest cat I have seen in a while. And he will never run out of arguments.

One thing that has been implied but not stated in the above posts is that when you have a pure penalty double over one of these high-level preempts you have to pass. If partner reopens with a double, great - you can convert it.

It just makes too much sense to use the double as card showing rather than as a penalty double. You just have to get used to the idea that you are going to miss out on a juicy penalty in those rare instances where you happen to hold a trump stack over a 4 or 5 level preempt and partner does not reopen with a double.

It is almost the same as playing takeout doubles at the one-level. Sometimes RHO opens 1♠ and you hold the KQJTxx of spades. I don't think anyone will argue that a double of 1♠ should be for penalties (although that was true in the early years of bridge - and I may be talking about auction bridge - unfortunately, I lost my authority on the early days of contract bridge a couple of years ago).