BBO Discussion Forums: the future of education? - BBO Discussion Forums

kenberg, on 2011-August-07, 16:31, said:

That is so true, not every add-on is helpful.

I have often looked at materials such as khan's, sometimes videos on utube and so on. I find them really tedious, some blackboard and a ghost talking about them quadratic equations, i cant ask questions, if i were a student, i would consider that punishment.

It is rare to see some school curriculum or program that actually tells students: hey kid, you are free to think and figure things out for yourself. Go to wikipeadia and bring questions to me instead of goging to mr. khan. But some teachers think it is too hard to be exposed to random questions.

I was bemused when ken said he received class notes from a previous teacher who taught a class. I once received not only a set of notes, the previous teacher had composed a manual from several textbooks, surely violating some copyright stuff, which he copied and sold to students. He presented me with 30 copies of the manuals, for me to sell to the students and then send him the money, and also instructed me not produce more manuals and sell once those were finished unless i could send him the money. I refused to do it and was called upon to do it because "I must do it for the good of the students". In other words, i the teacher cannot think for myself either.

I enjoyed re-reading the posts on this thread this morning. I love it when I stumble on gems like this one which still happens frequently on this site, even though many legendary posters have moved on:

kenberg, on 2011-August-05, 06:27, said:

Having something of your own to play around with, work on, stick with and talk about with other people who share your interests is pretty cool stuff.

You must have really liked it, you posted it three times!

I often reflect on the changing nature of being young. There is always a danger of letting nostalgia trump judgment of course.

One item: It's now thought to be a good thing to have all day Kindergarten. Maybe so. But there are some odd features. My birthday is January 1. In 1940s St. Paul this meant I could start school when I was 4. So I had half day kindergarten when I was 4, and all day first grade when I was 5. A grandchild is 4 and will turn 5 on September 11 a few days past the beginning of school. He will be tested to see if he can start Kindergarten this year and there is no guarantee of success. If he is not accepted then he will start all day Kindergarten next year at about the same age that I was when I started all day first grade. It's not so clear that this is progress. And more and more, mothers are holding some children, especially boys, back a year even if they are eligible for school.

My life was simple: I played when I was 3, started half day Kindergarten when I was 4, and full day first grade when I was 5. Worked for me.

And while I don't particularly want to knock my high school teachers (although some were in serious need of knocking) I am fairly serious with my claim that owning and caring for my car was preparation for college and for adult life that ranks right up there with Trigonometry and easily beats out the poets of the romantic era.

I did indeed. I intend to pass this on along with some of the other ideas in this thread to a family member who is starting out as a teacher in Brooklyn. Will give you full credit.

y66, on 2014-April-23, 08:51, said:

Far more important than credit, pass on my best wishes. The plain fact is: I think life as a child or adolescent was easier, perhaps a lot easier, some sixty years ago. It was easier for teachers also. I think that teachers who can recall that they were once a child have a good start on how to go about their job. Best wishes to him or her.

bbf seems to be duplicating today

kenberg, on 2014-April-23, 12:03, said:

There's some kind of problem that we can't figure out. When you get Gateway Timeout, DO NOT retry. The posts practically always go through, the timeout is happening when it tries to display the updated thread. Just reopen the forum.

barmar, on 2014-April-24, 08:31, said:

Right, I had discovered this. Even before the time-out it sometimes seems to have posted. I had clicked on post, it was a long time in going through, and since I had learned not to click again I just signed off. Later i looked and it had actually posted.

So it seems to "semi-post", it begins the posting process and in fact will successfully post even if you sign off, but it is still acting as if it has not done so.

Edit: With this post, I let it time-out. So I would assume that it had not posted. But it had. No further posting action was needed, despite the fact it claimed it had timed out.

Good luck with this.

JUMP Math (Junior undiscovered math prodigies) is a charity running out of Toronto started by John Mighton, a mathematician and playwright. http://www.jumpmath.org/cms/

I know very little about the field but their approach and reach are intriguing.

edit: Mighton as Ken points out below. There is no cure for dyslexia.

ggwhiz, on 2014-April-24, 11:20, said:

John Mighton, I think, not John Milton.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/John_Mighton

I didn't know about this, I'll look it over, thanks

It appears that his focus is on K-8 students who are having trouble in mathematics. My knowledge of this population is close to zip, although my younger daughter found algebra challenging. Actually so did I at first, but I then had an epiphany and found it trivial. Somewhat the same with my daughter although I don't think she would ever say she found it really easy. Just a lot easier than at first.

He, Mighton, regards anxiety as a major problem and, especially with children, I don't doubt that this is true. For me it was art class. This might sound crazy, but remember I was a kid. My parent's educational level was very limited, my father finished 8th grade and my mother had a year or so of high school. They were not at all involved in my education. The school had art and music, on alternate days, throughout K-8 and I could not draw a decent tree to save my life. No one told me that they don't really hold anyone back from moving on to high school because he can't draw a tree. I was reading Scientific American with interest and at least some understanding, but I couldn't draw a tree. I was, I am not making this up, seriously worried that I might be held back.

Kids struggle to understand just how the world works. Adults say this and they say that, some of it is true and some of it isn't. Taking a child's anxieties seriously and helping him/her deal realistically with them is a great service.

I know too little to endorse Mighton's approach, but I hope for the best. It is hardly a brilliant insight to recommend taking a child's fears seriously, but I think it is often not done.

kenberg, on 2014-April-25, 08:39, said:

Same here. Someone once called Robbie Robertson the most mathematically sound guitarist of his generation and I'm intrigued by an approach that comes from a mathematician with classroom experience mixed with a large dose of artistic talent.

I wouldn't be surprised of that combination simply catches a bunch of kids that would otherwise fall through the cracks.

onoway, on 2011-June-29, 22:24, said:

Thanks for posting this. I have not taken the time to read the other comments in the thread. I have not seen anything about Khan Academy before this. It all makes tremendous sense. One thing that especially makes sense is kids teaching peers. That forces the kid teaching to learn it even better, because he has to explain it to match the learner's perspective. (from my own experience.)

hrothgar, on 2011-August-04, 13:04, said:

Hmm. Random comments after revisiting the thread to see what the comments were.


Two posters in an education topic, each of which apparently do not understand the difference between vocation and avocation. Sorry. Maybe just picking on vocabulary here.

At least politics did not have anything to do with opinions on education. ROFL.

Posted after reading page two. My previous comment still applies. Thanks to Onoway. Great post.

Food for thought
Does education suffer from the competing goals of distinguishing performance and "certifying" competence? By that I am suggesting that teachers on the one hand are charged with grading their students, but on the other hand, a realistic goal would be for a student to achieve competence in a subject - objectively measured.

In the real world, competence is measured - licenses to drive, practice professions, etc. In education, IMO, competence is secondary to grading. Khan hit this on the head with his comment about bicycles and unicycles.

How much do teachers matter?
Not mentioned, as of page two - the limits to the ability of students to perform well is probably determined, in large measure, before they enter the formal educational system - pre-K and higher. There have been decades of research on this. The "educational complex" really does not want to accept this. To do so would clearly require accepting the statement that their role is secondary. They would prefer that we believe that somehow they can make up for socio-economic deficiencies in their "customers" (public).

I really like the usage of the word vocation in this thread.

My mom was a special ed teacher in the west side ghettos of Chicago.
She was an older teacher and getting to these schools was easy on the L, she did not own a car.

She spent most of her time fighting parents and the higher ups/union over basics such as food, winter boots and coats.

I never understood why she had to spend hours upon hours on teaching plans.

mike777, on 2014-April-26, 21:00, said:

Because "winging it" is considered bad form...

On a more serious note, the primary purpose of lesson plans is to detail what should be taught in the event that a substitute needs to fill in for you.

ya but that should not take years over years

it should be short

you missed the main point.."time"

My mom spent silly time on

1) lesson plans
2) getting students warm coats and boots..etc
-----------

On cnn feature on FEnger Hs...my local Chicago hs which I never went to the entire focus is on safety, security

zero on teaching.

the school is set up for roughly 2000 students..but only has rougly 1000.

Watching the program what pissed me off was the principal who kept want more and more money...rather than focusing on what she had to improve scholarship.

All I heard was more and more money and principle who could not wait to go home to the north side(white)

kenberg, on 2011-July-03, 12:45, said:

Interesting read. Reminded me of this: http://www.theatlant...rsation/360993/

*****'s getting real in the streets -- new generation of kids will be haves and have nots -- not based on material stuff, but those in charge to lead and those who are sheep. They will be too stimulated and 'trained' dumb to do anything but comply. It's really scary and imo will represent massive inequality far beyond anything we see now.

http://en.wikipedia....Autodidacticism

Perhaps our system of education should promote educating ourselves. Being taught for 12-16 years is probably insufficient for a full career. This has probably been the case for decades already.

People need to be able to learn by themselves. That means tracking down sources of knowledge new to them and learning from it.

The sooner one learns to learn at one's own pace, mastering the subject being studied, the better that person will be able to do so as necessary or desired.

sallyally, on 2011-June-30, 14:14, said:

Not a video, but it has interactive examples, so might be worth a try:

http://www.bridgegod...rt.php?artid=42