BBO Discussion Forums: SAYC 19 point hands - BBO Discussion Forums

I hate 18 and 19 point not-quite-balanced hands. I don't know how to bid them.

I haven't played with this partner more than once, I'm east. We also had no mention of what 4th suit meant.

I'd like to go through the bidding and give my thoughts at each bid, please tell me where I'm wrong.

• 1♠ - 5+ spades, 13+ hcp
  
• 2♣ - 5+ clubs, 6+ hcp
  
• 3♦ - I think I would interpret this as 5-5 diamonds/spades and more hcp... how much more?
  
• 3♥ - game force... but with a new partner, probably just rejecting my suits. 5-4 in clubs/hearts?
  
• 3n - We don't have a fit, signing off at cheapest game

here are the hands:


I'd love to hear feedback about this hand specifically, but also any general tips/advice you have for bidding strong hands that can't be described with a nt bid.
Thanks.

chalks, on 2012-January-30, 23:26, said:

1.) Your 1♠ bid was fine. It shows a 13-21 point hand (since with 22 you would presumably open a strong 2♣.
2.) 2♣ here should promise 10+ HCP playing SAYC and, it would be a 1 round force. The best response instead would have been 1NT, showing 6-9(or a bad 10) HCP. It is not a suggestion to play No Trumps, but a description of the hand strength (an inability to bid at the 2 level) and, generally denies 3 or more cards in your major.
3.) 3♦ in the stated auction (since 2♣ should show 10+) is generally, by most people, considered a "High Reverse" which should show about a King extra than a minimum opening hand. So, around 15 HCP. This then would set the Game Force (since 15+10 = 25...enough for game). However, had your partner bid the correct 1NT, then you must come up with a bid that describes your hand. 3♦ would also be correct after 1NT. This is called "Strong Jump Shift" and it requires about 19 HCP and is also a Game Force.

So, the most likely auction I see using your methods (SAYC) would be:
1♠ - 1NT
3♦ - 3♥
3NT

masse24, on 2012-January-31, 00:26, said:

No.
1S 1NT
3D 3S
4S

Definitely NOT 3H rather than 3S. 3H here would show a decent 6 card H suit, not KQxx.

the hog, on 2012-January-31, 02:36, said:

Good 5 card suit is fine IMO. x KQJ98 Kxx xxxx is an obvious 3h bid IMO.

On this hand, with both lenth and values in both the off suits, I think its fine to bid 3N rather than 3S. these 3S/3N decisions are difficult. Some people play that its obligatory to show a doubleton spade here, but that just makes it very hard for partner sometimes when the hands are like:
xx
QJT9
xx
QJT9x
i think it would be absurd not to just bid 3N. Obviousy most hands are somewhat grey. This one is borderline between 3s and 3N imo.

If responder has to bid 3S with a doubleton, I'd prefer 3NT by opener. As for 3H, either it should suggest cover in that suit for 3NT or be nat, 5+ cards - up to you.

So I'd bid

1S-1NT
3D-3H
3NT-pass

Here, if opener did have a 6th spade, he could bid 3S rather than 3NT and the fit would still be found.

ahydra

masse24, on 2012-January-31, 00:26, said:

Just a quibble with your terminology.

The 3♦ bid in this sequence is a jump shift (literally, a jump bid in a new suit). Whether it is natural or something else is a matter of partnership agreement. As the 2♣ bid promises a rebid, there is no reason to jump.

A "high reverse" is a non-jump rebid at the 3 level in a lower ranking suit after a 2/1 response to an opening bid. For example, the 3♣ bid in this sequence is a "high reverse":

1♠ - 2♦
3♣

In standard, the high reverse was a game force (as the 2♦ bid promised 10+ and not game forcing values).

ArtK78, on 2012-February-01, 08:53, said:

Goodness!? Of course. Did I really type that?
This will teach me not to try to use my brain after midnight, since, it is at that hour that I turn into a pumpkin. (and apparently my brain into pumpkin mush)